How should I answer this question?

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Onetogoagain

Well-Known Member
Hello,

I'm applying for a new flying job. A little while back, I was "unsat" during a recurrent PC where I was NOT the pilot flying (Fed observing the event saw some procedural stuff that he didn't like and the rest is history). So I didn't technically "bust" the PC, because I wasn't the one being evaluated.

I did not receive a pink slip (8060-5) for the unsat, just an internal company document explaining why I was going to be retrained. Both the CKA and the FAA inspector said this event would not reported to PRIA, but would be part of my internal training records.

So for the question "Have you ever failed a type rating, line or proficiency checking event" how would I answer that since I didn't *technially* fail the PC and no notice of disapproval was either signed by me, nor filed with the FAA? I don't know how to explain this on an application without going into a lot of detail and causing confusion.
 
If it was fill in the blank, then put "No pink 8060-5's ever issued"? Certainly not a lie.
 
Itchy said:
If it was fill in the blank, then put "No pink 8060-5's ever issued"? Certainly not a lie.
Click to expand...

It's not a fill in the blank. It's a "Yes" or "No" question with an explaination. I've been thinking of a few ways to approach this; I'm trying to think of the approach that leaves the least amount of confusion.

1. I could say "No" with an astericks and claim that I unsated a recurrent checking event from the NPF side and it was a non-reportable failure.
2. I could say "No" and just leave it at that.
3. I could say "Yes" and state it was a remedial training action only and not a technical PC failure.

I'm sure I'll be asked about it either way, if I say "Yes"... but that's a whole other matter. Given the remainder of my flying record pre and post unsat (no training failures, no checkride failures), I'm not sure the employer would give it too much thought. I just something solid to write if I'm going to say "Yes" to this question.
 
Onetogoagain said:
Hello,

I'm applying for a new flying job. A little while back, I was "unsat" during a recurrent PC where I was NOT the pilot flying (Fed observing the event saw some procedural stuff that he didn't like and the rest is history). So I didn't technically "bust" the PC, because I wasn't the one being evaluated.

I did not receive a pink slip (8060-5) for the unsat, just an internal company document explaining why I was going to be retrained. Both the CKA and the FAA inspector said this event would not reported to PRIA, but would be part of my internal training records.

So for the question "Have you ever failed a type rating, line or proficiency checking event" how would I answer that since I didn't *technially* fail the PC and no notice of disapproval was either signed by me, nor filed with the FAA? I don't know how to explain this on an application without going into a lot of detail and causing confusion.
Click to expand...



"Have you ever failed a type rating, line or proficiency checking event"

Onetogoagain said:
I did not receive a pink slip... Both the CKA and the FAA inspector said this event would not reported to PRIA...no notice of disapproval...I didn't *technially* fail the PC
Click to expand...

Stop stressing. You either fail or you don't. From what you're telling us, you didn't. End of story. Don't offer to tell people about this in an interview unless they specifically ask "Have you ever had a sim partner fail a PC?"
Good luck getting the job.

Onetogoagain said:
It's not a fill in the blank. It's a "Yes" or "No" question with an explaination. I've been thinking of a few ways to approach this; I'm trying to think of the approach that leaves the least amount of confusion.

1. I could say "No" with an astericks and claim that I unsated a recurrent checking event from the NPF side and it was a non-reportable failure.
2. I could say "No" and just leave it at that.
3. I could say "Yes" and state it was a remedial training action only and not a technical PC failure.

I'm sure I'll be asked about it either way, if I say "Yes"... but that's a whole other matter. Given the remainder of my flying record pre and post unsat (no training failures, no checkride failures), I'm not sure the employer would give it too much thought. I just something solid to write if I'm going to say "Yes" to this question.
Click to expand...
I honestly believe that if you try to answer No and then give an explanation the person doing the interview will either think you're lying and trying to cover up some far more than you're letting on or that you don't understand the concept of a PC and will wonder what else you don't know about aviation.
Just my opinion.
 
BajtheJino said:
"Have you ever failed a type rating, line or proficiency checking event"



Stop stressing. You either fail or you don't. From what you're telling us, you didn't. End of story. Don't offer to tell people about this in an interview unless they specifically ask "Have you ever had a sim partner fail a PC?"
Good luck getting the job.


I honestly believe that if you try to answer No and then give an explanation the person doing the interview will either think you're lying and trying to cover up some far more than you're letting on or that you don't understand the concept of a PC and will wonder what else you don't know about aviation.
Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response - I want to be sure everyone understands: *I* was unsated for stuff that *I* did on the non-flying pilot side during the sim session. Because the CKA can't conduct two checking events simultaneously, they unsated me and I was not served with a notice of disapproval; just a notice of remedial corrective training.
 
BajtheJino said:
"Have you ever failed a type rating, line or proficiency checking event"
I honestly believe that if you try to answer No and then give an explanation the person doing the interview will either think you're lying and trying to cover up some far more than you're letting on or that you don't understand the concept of a PC and will wonder what else you don't know about aviation.
Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I also don't want them finding this in my training records (not PRIA) and saying "Umm... why didn't you tell us you didn't pass your last recurrent because you were unsated?" I can answer that question by saying, "Because technically you weren't asking if I had an unsat, you were asking if I failed a PC, which technically I didn't.." I don't know how it would go from there, but I would not be suprised if I was shown the door at that point.. maybe not, but it seems to me I'm trying to say "well it depends on what the meaning of "IS" is..."

You see what I'm saying? If the application asked "Have you ever received an UNSAT...." then no problem; the answer is "yes". The application asks in a separate question if I've ever received a notice of disapproval... I would think if you said yes to one and no to the other that would be contradictory in and of itself.
 
Ok. I've confused myself. You had to stop the PC, receive additional training, PC resumed and you finished no problems? Or you had to stop your portion of the PC, come back another day, receive additional training and then finish the PC?
Or this happened to your PC partner? Or you partner was given a pink slip?
Another thing, you might want to find out exactly what information is shared with a PRIA request. Have you requested a copy of your records from your employer?
Maybe I'm getting confused on you saying you Unsat'd. You either passed the PC or you didn't. Which is to say you completed the PC satisfactory or unsatisfactory. It doesn't matter what your partner did or did not do in the PC.
See what I'm saying.
 
BajtheJino said:
Or you had to stop your portion of the PC, come back another day, receive additional training and then finish the PC?
Click to expand...
Correct.

No pink slip was issued. I was non-flying pilot. The fed observing was unhappy because I didn't pull out the performance book on a go-around and look up the holding speed; instead I just dialed in our max speed for the altitude at which we were holding. For that, I was unsat'd on non-flying pilot duties and had to take remedial training. I passed my normal PC (in which I was the pilot flying) no problem.

But what you saying about "passing the PC or not" is good - I should simply answer "Yes" state why and move on. I've failed one checkride (the one I'm talking about) in my entire 7 year career; and I have no violations or anything else like that. I'm sure it's not the end of the world.
 
Okay. A PC is not a check ride. You are saying you've never failed a check ride. You are also saying that you've never failed a PC but you did require additional training but that you have never been issued a dis continuance. Good. There is no record of failure. Anywhere. So you're saying that if someone asks you if you've failed a Checkride/PC/Upgrade you're going to say Yes, but I have no record of a failure? Anywhere? Or if they ask if you've ever had an Unsat PC you're going to say Yes, even though theres no record of it? For it to be Unsat you would have to have been issued a dis continuance. Having a box checked on a successful PC that you required additional training to complete the maneuver is not the same thing has having an Unsat PC.


Contact who ever in your company maintains records. Request a copy.
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...33cc9bb0886256e370075f9c9/$FILE/AC120-68C.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/media/COMPRQST.pdf
http://www.nbaa.org/admin/personnel/pria/ac-120-68e.pdf Page 17 area.
 
BajtheJino said:
Okay. A PC is not a check ride. You are saying you've never failed a check ride. You are also saying that you've never failed a PC but you did require additional training but that you have never been issued a dis continuance. Good. There is no record of failure. Anywhere. So you're saying that if someone asks you if you've failed a Checkride/PC/Upgrade you're going to say Yes, but I have no record of a failure? Anywhere? Or if they ask if you've ever had an Unsat PC you're going to say Yes, even though theres no record of it? For it to be Unsat you would have to have been issued a dis continuance. Having a box checked on a successful PC that you required additional training to complete the maneuver is not the same thing has having an Unsat PC.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying, and that's why I'm trying to get some clarity on this situation (because it is unusual) before I answer it; it sounds kind of strange to say "Yes, I've failed a recurrent PC" unless there is a record of it. The only record of it would be with the company I used to work for - but it's not on an official record, like you would get from the FAA (via a PRIA). I'll request a copy of my records from the company, that sounds like a good place to start.
 
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