How often do you...

How often do you brief your airframe's go around profile/procedures during your approach briefings?

  • Never

    Votes: 21 27.3%

  • Rarely

    Votes: 28 36.4%

  • Frequently

    Votes: 13 16.9%

  • Always

    Votes: 15 19.5%
  • Total voters
    77
surreal1221

surreal1221

Well-Known Member
...
Brief go-around procedures during your approach briefing?
...

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And due to my fault, some confusion occurred. That said, before reading further please keep in mind the following:

Apologize guys for not being more specific, but I'm inquiring here to the call-outs of the actual go-around maneuver not the missed approach procedures listed on the chart.
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No judgment, but it's a subject area that is seeing a lot of visibility within the safety community and I'm interested in the numbers here. I can honestly say that I may brief the missed approach procedure in the case of an instrument approach or my best guess as far as what Tower may have us do in the event of an issued go-around during a visual approach, but I have never briefed my company's Go-Around profile during an approach briefing. Yup, I'm a horrible pilot it seems. Oops.

To the best of my knowledge it isn't necessarily a hard and fast SOP at most organizations to brief the specifics of the Go-Around maneuver but due to certain loss of control accidents and incidents over recent years (not necessarily here in the United States) various safety organizations worldwide are focusing in on the ability of flight crews to successfully - manually - fly a go-around. Shocking, I know. I think.

So, that said...the poll is clearly anonymous and you're absolutely not required to do the following:

1) Participate

or

2) Share comments.

After reviewing some internal documents of a certain airline I see that its safety and flight training department have begun to encourage crews to incorporate the airframe's specific go-around profile discussion during the approach briefing. Ultimately knowing that a well briefed and well discussed approach briefing builds awareness and reduces confusion in the event a go-around is necessary.

Thanks.
 
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I'll go over the initial instructions and verify that's what the box days every brief. If there is something kinky involved I'll spend a lot more time on it.

But if you verify its loaded correctly then for the most part you don't really need to go that in depth.
 
Are you asking, if we brief our callouts for go-around? Or are you asking if we brief the charted go-around (i.e. Missed)?

I verify the glasses matches the paper, errr... iPad. Every time. (As far as go-around/missed approach)

However, I don't brief our callouts, i.e. Profile.
 
Apologize guys for not being more specific, but I'm inquiring here to the call-outs of the actual go-around maneuver not the missed approach procedures listed on the chart.
 
surreal1221 said:
Apologize guys for not being more specific, but I'm inquiring here to the call-outs of the actual go-around maneuver not the missed approach procedures listed on the chart.
Click to expand...
At first glance it seems like a go around/missed should be a no-brainer, but in my (admittedly limited) experience an unexpected go around (which a go around outside of training/checking is) is one of the most-botched maneuvers around. I can count on one hand the number of real-world (non check ride/training) go arounds I've done in 4 years of flying 135 and though details escape me it seems I usually remember them being shaky WRT the profile and procedure. TL; DR it's probably not a bad idea.
 
Thanks for sharing that @Roger Roger

And it is this issue that various safety organizations have honed in on. It's one thing to do it when you know it is coming and, unfortunately, it seems that when unexpected professional crews are not accomplishing the task accurately. Not that this failure occurs in an accident, incident, deviation every time but it is clear that it may be an area we see renewed focus from safety departments.
 
We have two approach configurations either flaps 5 or flaps full. We always fly flaps 5 and practice go arounds for flaps 5 but flaps full has a different callout and procedure so with flaps full I brief the entire flaps full go around. Other than that usually close in-trail spacing for occupied runway go around or weather near mins.
 
I very rarely brief the missed profile as part of the approach briefing. Interestingly enough, out of all the go arounds I've done in the actual plane (well, two different air frames now), only once had a go around been super sloppy and something I felt was a safety risk and that was due to an abnormal configuration (fully configured, full boards, power idle, descending 3000fpm) leading to the go around. At both 121 shops I've been at, we beat that profile pretty well to death in the sim and it feels like it sticks.

We brief an engine failure prior to and after V1 on the first departure of every day. Then throughout the day we brief the runway specific engine out profile for each flight. It's kind of interesting that we brief the less likely scenario and rely on memory for the more likely one.
 
If I am flying with the same Captain all day, I try to do a full brief of go around procedures and calls on the first leg. From then on I reference back to it on the next legs.

Our normal landing is flaps 20, however when do a flaps 35 landing the procedures get briefed every time. There are some different calls on that go around, and we don't do them that often. So it's good to run through them.
 
The only airframe specific briefing for a go-around that I have seen regularly is for non-normals and that is usually included in the Notes section of the Electronic Checklist on the B777/B787. I've seen a few guys brief their initial actions for normal approaches, not SOP, but doesn't bother me. I don't do it and have never felt the need other than for a non-normal.

Where go-arounds tend to go wrong is when they are not from minimums. A go-around from 1000 feet or 2000 feet AFE tends to get screwed up pretty easily based on my observations. The reason being is in the simulator, as BobD stated, we do a fair amount of low level go-around so the muscle memory and verbal calls tends to be pretty well ingrained. We don't tend to practice go-arounds from 1000 feet AFE though.

If you fly a B777, B787, or any airplane that has TOGA to LNAV it's worth watching where the airplane is going if tower told you to fly runway heading versus the published procedure. Even trickier on circle-to-land maneuvers. TOGA to LNAV could easily make the aircraft start a turn in the wrong direction, especially with crosswinds present on certain segments of the circle. The TOGA to LNAV change was either Blockpoint 14 or 15, I forget. We're at Blockpoint 17 now for the B777.


Typhoonpilot
 
I throw it into my approach brief so it's at least every other leg.

"Since we're landing flaps (full/three), if we have to go missed, it'll be TOGA power flaps (3/2), positive rate, gear up…"
 
We are only required to brief "conditions" for a go around once a day. As far as briefing the profile, almost never. If I feel like a go around may be imminent then I might throw out a "looks like this isn't going to work (traffic conflict on runway) so in that case it will be a 'go around, flaps 8'"

I have never had a case of a trainwreck go around where we didn't do or make the call outs we were supposed to.
 
We rarely brief for the aircraft profile go around procedure and it isn't a part of our SOP to do so. I fly two types and when transitioning between them I have to remind myself where the go around button is located and the difference in the logic of the avionics. There was a presentation on this at the Safety Standdown in ICT last fall that was pretty good.
 
There is no requirement where I work to do so and I use to not do it. I've recently changed that, however, and try to throw it in once per day but at a minimum on the first leg of the trip (I normally fly that one). They are rarely done (probably once a year in the sim), and I've had a few cases of new FO's being behind when I've done them in the sim, thus my change.
 
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