How many hours you CFIs getting?

[ QUOTE ]


I have no problem with the fact that I'm not getting paid in between flights. If a doctor has a his/her own practice, (s)he won't get paid for time spent between patients. If a lawyer is in the office, and not working on a case for a client, (s)he isn't getting paid for his/her time.

[/ QUOTE ]

A doctor who owns his own practice is not required by someone else to be in the office. A lawyer factors office time into the charge to the client. If you as a CFI are forced by your employer to work in the office, you should be compensated for it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing silly about your girlfriend's thinking. Instructors should get paid for any required office work they have to do, but unfortunately it almost isn't the case.
rolleyes.gif


[/ QUOTE ]


WMU pays $240 bi-weekly for our office hours.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing silly about your girlfriend's thinking. Instructors should get paid for any required office work they have to do, but unfortunately it almost isn't the case.
rolleyes.gif


[/ QUOTE ]


WMU pays $240 bi-weekly for our office hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many office hours do you do in those two weeks?
 
i'm not at all required to stay at the office all day, but i do because i want to fly. if i want the students i've got to be here. its tuff fighting the Cheif CFI for all the students who come in, let alone the other instructors we have. so i tend to just come in and be here more than the other CFIs. i just hang out and chill on the computer and study for my CFII, and grab any walk-ins or phone calls i can. just the other day the Chief tried to give one of the other CFI's a prospective student(CFI who isn't here much), kicker is the student can only come in 6am-8am tuesday and thursday, possibly weekends. so i was like, "hell, i'll take him!". i've got no problem getting up early, so i bugged the chief for a few days about whether or not the other CFI had called the student or not. ends up the other CFI wasn't all that excited about getting up early, so i get the ok to call the student. so i call him up, introduce myself and yadda yadda. turns out this guy kindda got turned off because nobody had contacted him since his first call, and now its up in the air if he is still interested in using our school for flight training. ARRGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!
banghead.gif
banghead.gif
i was so pissed about that one.


so in any event, my girl doesn't understand why i have to fight for students.
wink.gif
 
I'm curious, how do most flight schools pair up students and CFIs? Are there set procedures, or is it an informal, "who's at the right place at the right time" sort of deal?

At my school, students are initially paired with whichever CFI will work best with the student's schedule, or if the student requests a specific CFI for some reason, they get paired up of course. Student intro flights are evenly distributed among each of the CFIs.

The idea of "fighting other CFIs" for students rubs me the wrong way. Not to say anyone who's made such comments in this thread is a bad CFI. I just don't like the terminology. It sounds too much like the focus is on building hours/getting paid, rather than the student's best interest.

It really irritated me the other day when I heard a coworker talking about how a CFI's students should be divided evenly among the others when the CFI leaves for another job. My philosophy is to let the students pick which instructor they'd like to fly with in the future and let the chips fall where they may.

Being at the airport a lot is the first step to getting students, but long-term student satisfaction is far more important. If I were a chief CFI and was talking to a prospective student, I might pair them up with a particular CFI because I get the feeling their personalities would work best together, even if the CFI I want to pair them with isn't around much.

I'm not saying this was the case with you, dakovich. I don't know anything about you, your local setup, your chief CFI, or any of that. I'm just saying that I think there's more to getting students than hanging around all the time.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I have no problem with the fact that I'm not getting paid in between flights. If a doctor has a his/her own practice, (s)he won't get paid for time spent between patients. If a lawyer is in the office, and not working on a case for a client, (s)he isn't getting paid for his/her time.

[/ QUOTE ]

A doctor who owns his own practice is not required by someone else to be in the office. A lawyer factors office time into the charge to the client. If you as a CFI are forced by your employer to work in the office, you should be compensated for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

At WOE, we like people that are going to be here. I'm not required to be here at all. I come and go as I choose. If I wanna fly from noon-2200, I can! Nobody is going to say a word.

Now, if you do that, you're not going to get very many students.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious, how do most flight schools pair up students and CFIs? Are there set procedures, or is it an informal, "who's at the right place at the right time" sort of deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly the way that it is. I'm pretty much running the show around here at JWN, and I like a no-stress enviroment. If the phone rings, I'm very eager to give the phone to another CFI. I really haven't much time to pick up new customers, so I have my own way of choosing CFI's.

I have one particular CFI that busts his butt. He's here whenever he's not on the road (he's a musician), he's here. OK, OK - he spends a night or two with his wife. But he's a go-getter, and he's here when we need him. Great CFI, too. If a guy or girl walks in, he's first pick.

The other CFI's? Well, they're usually not here when walk-ins or call-ins happen. Guess what: They don't get students.

I don't require any of my CFI's the maintain "office hours". That being said, I'm not going to feed them students quite so easily. A couple of them want to sing that "I'm an independant contractor" song. Ok, contractor. Go find your own students. When a CFI says that, they're gone on my "I'm not gonna give this guy any students . . . " list. Dig your hole, now lay in it.

Here at Wings, team players get the bones. If you want some students, come to work.

We have a receptionist that handles alot of the stuff that goes on, and she'll kinda direct phone calls according to the above system.

We don't have much "fighting" among CFI's. Some are jealous, but I don't apologize for that.


[ QUOTE ]
Student intro flights are evenly distributed among each of the CFIs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here, it's availability. If a customer wants to do a DISCO flight on Wed at 1330, we assign the person that is available in the scheduler. If you don't wanna fly, mark yourself as unavailable in the computer. If you don't mark unavailable and then I get a call that you cancelled because of the dog's dental appointment or some crap like that, we're going in the office to have a talk. It's going to be a one-way conversation, too.


[ QUOTE ]

If I were a chief CFI and was talking to a prospective student, I might pair them up with a particular CFI because I get the feeling their personalities would work best together, even if the CFI I want to pair them with isn't around much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are Chief's out there doing this kinda work? Why are they flying, or doing what chiefs are supposed to be doing?

My job as an assistant chief (while searching for a new chief) is to manage and keep the flight school running smoothly. I should have CFI's at the door greeting customers with our receptionist.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just saying that I think there's more to getting students than hanging around all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, that's about all there is to getting students initially. Now, retaining those students is a different story. . .
wink.gif
 
MTSU...

[ QUOTE ]
My job as an assistant chief (while searching for a new chief) is to manage and keep the flight school running smoothly. I should have CFI's at the door greeting customers with our receptionist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did I miss something? Why are you searching for a new chief? Is it a new opening or is someone leaving? I am probably just missing something, but how do the duties of Chief and Assistant Chief vary? Just something I was curious about.
 
[ QUOTE ]
MTSU...

[ QUOTE ]
My job as an assistant chief (while searching for a new chief) is to manage and keep the flight school running smoothly. I should have CFI's at the door greeting customers with our receptionist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did I miss something? Why are you searching for a new chief? Is it a new opening or is someone leaving? I am probably just missing something, but how do the duties of Chief and Assistant Chief vary? Just something I was curious about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Our old Chief is now flying for a huge hospital corporation based in the Southeast U.S.A. with hospitals all over the place, that shall remain nameless . . .
grin.gif


There aren't a whole lot of differences between the two gigs. His/Her signature is a little bit heavier than mine, and (s)he can sign a few things that I can't. Both the chief and chief can do stage checks, check new instructors our, etc. As per part 141, we can both do quite a bit!

Anybody wanna be the Chief Flight Instructor is what is (I think . . . ) the largest flight school in Tennessee? Drop me a line!
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing silly about your girlfriend's thinking. Instructors should get paid for any required office work they have to do, but unfortunately it almost isn't the case.
rolleyes.gif


[/ QUOTE ]


WMU pays $240 bi-weekly for our office hours.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many office hours do you do in those two weeks?

[/ QUOTE ]

About 10hrs. The school has not caught up with a lot of the electronic systems used for record keeping; such as Talon. So it takes about 5hrs a week to keep up with your students's records and do their grades.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

We want to compare ourselves to professionals in other fields all the time - what's the difference?
wink.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

They get paid more!
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Riiiggghhhtttt. . .

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't get me wrong, I accept the down time as part of the industry and find the more time I sit and wait at the airport, the less time I have because I'm there to pick up new students. However, when I started as a professional engineer, I was paid more and worked less. My salary as a pilot probably won't catch up with what I could have made as an engineer. Thing is, I like flying so I'll take the 'down time' at the airport and enjoy it, whereas I was unhappy just showing up for work as an engineer.

Regards!
Marc
 
[ QUOTE ]
The idea of "fighting other CFIs" for students rubs me the wrong way

[/ QUOTE ]

its not really a "fight", but it can very much be a competition in some respects. the more you can put into it, the more you get out of it. of course not everyone can be here all the time. one CFI has a great full time job and comes in nights and weekends, another has a part time on-call job and that dictates their schedule. me, i left my serving job to try and be here as much as possible. i also screwed myself a bit because things haven't been all that busy here and now i don't have that extra $300.00-$400.00 a week from serving. but, if one of us is hurting for students real bad (one guy has "0" students) i'll just let him get any phone calls that come in. even though, not many of those calls are actually prospective studnets so it kind of sucks.


to put it in perspective heres a quick stroy of how the company filled one of their vacant King Air slots:

-one CFI here all the time, students or no studnets

-one CFI that came in maybe once twice a week, and whenever they were GIVEN a student

-King Air slot opens up

-People upstairs run down to the CFI office looking to fill the slot

-CFI who rarely came in happend to be in the office doing whatever they were there to do, the other CFI who was working thier butt off to get and retain students was up flying

-They grabbed the first person they saw, and that was the CFI who was never there

-not long after the hadr working CFI got picked up and is now Captain on the King Air and working toward Lear Captain

-the other CFI who got picked up first and slacked as a CFI got let go and never made it past F.O. in the King Air
 
80 - 100 hrs / mo. here......usually at the airport between 0700 - 0800 and leave around 1800 - 2000. Generally work 6 days a week.....need some sanity time....all work and no play........

Also, it is very much a "being at the right place at the right time" kinda deal. Now, that being said, if one instructor has 6 students and another has 1 the new student will be given the the studentless instructor....it is now their job to retain that student.
 
Back
Top