How many hours for complex endorsement and commercial checkride?

If you are talking about the complex endorsment by itself, 5-10 hours.

If you are talking about complex plus Commercial SEL prep including cross country flights. 40 hours seems high, but not out of the question.

You need to fly with another CFI to evaluate your progress. Maybee you are almost ready, maybee your CFI is being a hard ass, maybee you need another instructor to make it click.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
40 hours to get a complex endorsement? What the heck are you flying? Are you having any problems? Or, is he just keeping the endorsement in his pocket while you receive other duel training?
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If this is the case, this situation makes a little more sense, not that I agree with this approach. If not, time to look for another CFI.
If you came from a 172 to a 172RG, your transition should be very short and easy.
 
airplane401 said:
I was wondering how many hours on average it takes to get a complex endorsement? My instructor said he wants me to be more fluid with the controls or something? Idk. I'm working on my commercial and I have 300 hours total with 40 hours complex. I just feel like I'm at a stall with my commercial training. What should I do?
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Sometimes it can be the instructor. I've heard of horror stories where CFIs were milking their student and I know it exists and have run into it on two occasions. He could also be unusually nervous too and not necessarily have ill intent towards you. If you have the chance to maybe go fly with another instructor or pilot in the same model of plane it might be helpful to get their input.

My personal experience was that I had been signed off on my instrument ride at one school, but was moving before Christmas and ultimately going to need another flight school. Due to some bad weather and DPE availability I was unable to get my checkride in before I moved over a thousand miles away so my instrument signoff lapsed. I went with another instructor at a different flight school who was new to instructing and didn't have much experience. He kept moving the goal posts on me for a signoff and after being repeatedly overcharged for ground instruction I went to the owner who was an instructor and she reviewed the footage, credited me a good bit and got me a much more experienced flight instructor who was incredible. Ultimately I got signed off two or three flights later if I recall correctly and nailed my checkride. The CFI later got fired after mistreating some other people and the owner and his attitude burned him some bridges in the aviation community as noone seemed to want to hire him to fly anything more than a single engine piston and my first job I worked I was making more money than he was at the same time by a good bit.

Don't beat yourself up too badly. CFIs aren't infallible and it's really hard to rank your pilot skills when all you ever do is fly with just instructors so you might be a better than average pilot.
 
statusseeker1 said:
If you haven't been signed off for your complex after 40 hours he is taking you for a ride. Is he building time for the regionals by chance?
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That's a very immaculate statement. I have students who finish their ppl in 45 hours and I have some that take 200 hours. Some people just aren't meant to fly yet they still don't give up.
 
mrivc211 said:
That's a very immaculate statement. I have students who finish their ppl in 45 hours and I have some that take 200 hours. Some people just aren't meant to fly yet they still don't give up.
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Yeah I mean I got my private in 46 hours and I passed my instrument checkride with flying colors. My examiner even said I was the best he's ever scene. I've been all over the place with instructors for my commercial though and it seems every instructor has a different opinion on how the maneuvers should be done.
 
mrivc211 said:
That's a very immaculate statement. I have students who finish their ppl in 45 hours and I have some that take 200 hours. Some people just aren't meant to fly yet they still don't give up.
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Immaculate or inaccurate? We're not talking about a new certificate here. We're talking about learning how to raise and lower landing gear and how to use a prop lever. I was also an instructor so I've seen what you are describing as well.
 
statusseeker1 said:
Immaculate or inaccurate? We're not talking about a new certificate here. We're talking about learning how to raise and lower landing gear and how to use a prop lever. I was also an instructor so I've seen what you are describing as well.
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Autocorrect. I mostly meant beginners. However I have a guy I'm teaching now that came to me with 80 hours at another school and no PPL and no end in sight. I finished him up in 15 hours. He took 50 hours of hood work to finish his instrument. And now he is at 24 hours and not finished with his commercial. I have another student who came to me with 170 hours working on his PPL. He is nowhere near done. He doesn't have the mental capability to do it, yet he still keeps trying. I've told him exactly what he needs to do but he just can't do it. I have a third guy who got his PPL at 47 hours. No two students are alike. You just won't know how long it will take them until you are into the training. There are some signs to look for that does help. Did he go to college AND finish? Does he have a technical or advanced degree? What kind of personality does he have. Most people that come to me that are engineers or doctors or some sort of degree that required a lot of effort, usually stick with it and pass because this isn't the first time they are being tested on their own accord. The guys who half assed it in life and school usually show up and give up somewhere between 1 and 10 lessons because they've never followed through on anything in their lives. It's just a pattern that you begin to see after doing so many of these guys.
 
Roger Roger said:
I knew a guy like that, he's flying for UAL now :aghast:
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yup. I had a first officer who had no business belonging in the jet I was flying that nearly broke the landing gear on EVERY landing without me grabbing the controls at the last second but they wouldn't get rid of this person because of human factors. They would have been sued if they fired this person, even though it was for a legitimate reason.
 
airplane401 said:
Yeah I mean I got my private in 46 hours and I passed my instrument checkride with flying colors. My examiner even said I was the best he's ever scene. I've been all over the place with instructors for my commercial though and it seems every instructor has a different opinion on how the maneuvers should be done.
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True. On the student side of it, theres a million different instructor personalities out there. Mean, too nice, push overs, slow pokes, indecisive, etc. The list goes on. Its hard for both sides. Im doing two CFI candidates right now and I try to teach them the business aspect of it. What not to do. How not to correct students. It's a fine balance. Ultimately experience and time will polish these CFIs but by that time they are long gone to the airlines which I dont blame them for.
 
srn121 said:
Sometimes it can be the instructor. I've heard of horror stories where CFIs were milking their student and I know it exists and have run into it on two occasions. He could also be unusually nervous too and not necessarily have ill intent towards you. If you have the chance to maybe go fly with another instructor or pilot in the same model of plane it might be helpful to get their input.

My personal experience was that I had been signed off on my instrument ride at one school, but was moving before Christmas and ultimately going to need another flight school. Due to some bad weather and DPE availability I was unable to get my checkride in before I moved over a thousand miles away so my instrument signoff lapsed. I went with another instructor at a different flight school who was new to instructing and didn't have much experience. He kept moving the goal posts on me for a signoff and after being repeatedly overcharged for ground instruction I went to the owner who was an instructor and she reviewed the footage, credited me a good bit and got me a much more experienced flight instructor who was incredible. Ultimately I got signed off two or three flights later if I recall correctly and nailed my checkride. The CFI later got fired after mistreating some other people and the owner and his attitude burned him some bridges in the aviation community as noone seemed to want to hire him to fly anything more than a single engine piston and my first job I worked I was making more money than he was at the same time by a good bit.

Don't beat yourself up too badly. CFIs aren't infallible and it's really hard to rank your pilot skills when all you ever do is fly with just instructors so you might be a better than average pilot.
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And those same instructors go unchecked, get to the airlines, upgrade to captain, and boss their FO's around for 4 days thinking they're god. I've sat in disbelief on more than one jumpseat ride. It was basically a dictatorship in the cockpit instead of a team effort. Even when its the captains responsibility to make the final call, you should always consult your FO and make him feel part of the team. Better decisions are made that way. Sometimes they're not always right, but a lot of times they see things you may miss.

All these posts bring up great points.
 
mrivc211 said:
yup. I had a first officer who had no business belonging in the jet I was flying that nearly broke the landing gear on EVERY landing without me grabbing the controls at the last second but they wouldn't get rid of this person because of human factors. They would have been sued if they fired this person, even though it was for a legitimate reason.
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I don't remember what kind of stick he was but during his CFI homeboy thought the belt up front was the prop drive belt and that the engine was cooled by 5606.
 
Roger Roger said:
I don't remember what kind of stick he was but during his CFI homeboy thought the belt up front was the prop drive belt and that the engine was cooled by 5606.
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I love how you're so dismissive of someone as a 'homeboy'. Not everyone's the greatest student and there's nothing more infuriating than when a DPE or instructor thumbs there nose at the person they're working with. The most I ever wanted to hit an instructor was when I was getting fueled up at an FBO. An older gentleman came in a bit younger than my dad came in and looked like he'd been a bit frustrated, meanwhile his hot shot CFI decided to tell the CSR loudly how badly his student was flying and laughed a bit at the guys expense (his student was already in the bathroom, but may have still heard him). Fail the guy if you need to, but make it a learning experience so he comes back with his stuff together or move on to a type of flying where he doesn't have to instruct.
 
srn121 said:
I love how you're so dismissive of someone as a 'homeboy'. Not everyone's the greatest student and there's nothing more infuriating than when a DPE or instructor thumbs there nose at the person they're working with. The most I ever wanted to hit an instructor was when I was getting fueled up at an FBO. An older gentleman came in a bit younger than my dad came in and looked like he'd been a bit frustrated, meanwhile his hot shot CFI decided to tell the CSR loudly how badly his student was flying and laughed a bit at the guys expense (his student was already in the bathroom, but may have still heard him). Fail the guy if you need to, but make it a learning experience so he comes back with his stuff together or move on to a type of flying where he doesn't have to instruct.
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Wow, #triggered much? If it was a one-off occurrence I wouldn't make fun of him, but I was a year or two apart from this dude in college so by the time he was doing CFI he was a known entity. Lazy, not particularly adept, and entitled. Well deserving of a mocking, and unless the time he spent at a regional beat some sense into him I hope he has the grumpiest, saltiest old bastards at UAL as his captains.
 
Roger Roger said:
Wow, #triggered much? If it was a one-off occurrence I wouldn't make fun of him, but I was a year or two apart from this dude in college so by the time he was doing CFI he was a known entity. Lazy, not particularly adept, and entitled. Well deserving of a mocking, and unless the time he spent at a regional beat some sense into him I hope he has the grumpiest, saltiest old bastards at UAL as his captains.
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So you admit to being eager to mock him and have nothing better to do, but wish the worst for him? You sound like a wonderful human being yourself and such a fun and upbeat person to be around. If he's flying for United already like you hinted at in your post I'm sure he's a good enough student to get through all the checkrides he's faced in his career.
 
mrivc211 said:
I have students who finish their ppl in 45 hours and I have some that take 200 hours. Some people just aren't meant to fly yet they still don't give up.
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I've seen a PPL take 300 hours. They were definitely meant to fly, and were a great pilot no less. Especially older, cautious students that have no problem spending the money - who are we to judge? They are our customers. And the best ones are usually when I'm telling them they are ready, but they want to learn more.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I've seen a PPL take 300 hours. They were definitely meant to fly, and were a great pilot no less. Especially older, cautious students that have no problem spending the money - who are we to judge? They are our customers. And the best ones are usually when I'm telling them they are ready, but they want to learn more.
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I couldn't disagree more. A guy that takes 300 hours to finish their PPL has no business flying an airplane. If they were great pilots they wouldn't have taken 300 hours to finish something that should be done between 60-80 maximum. I could see maybe a little more if they got messed with changing instructors but if it was solid training....
 
Starting last year, student pilot cert don't expire. We can expect to see some folks rack up some big hours before they get their PPL.
 
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