How low will it go?

dasleben said:
That's a new one. Why do you say that? You're leaving money on the table.
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I was being sarcastic. :) I thought that would have been clear based on previous threads where I extolled the virtues of smartly utilizing debt. Sorry.

The only reason that I don't leverage my investment portfolio is that I keep all of my investments in my company, and I'm a lot more conservative with the company's money than I am with my own. I don't like debt in business, while I'm more than happy to tolerate it in my personal finances.
 
dasleben said:
If you guys are killing it so well in equities, have you considered learning how to use leverage?
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I would like to but with a baby and possibly a new aircraft I don't want to get into it right now. I've actually moved everything over ETFs for the time being.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I was being sarcastic. :) I thought that would have been clear based on previous threads where I extolled the virtues of smartly utilizing debt. Sorry.

The only reason that I don't leverage my investment portfolio is that I keep all of my investments in my company, and I'm a lot more conservative with the company's money than I am with my own. I don't like debt in business, while I'm more than happy to tolerate it in my personal finances.
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Man, I was totally about to sell the use of leverage to you by using your arguments in other threads. Well played. :D
 
Cessnaflyer said:
I would like to but with a baby and possibly a new aircraft I don't want to get into it right now. I've actually moved everything over ETFs for the time being.
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I have such a disdain for ETFs that I struggle to even talk about them. By the time you research all the caveats of how it won't do what you think it'll do I could work some TA on something else.
 
mikecweb said:
I have such a disdain for ETFs that I struggle to even talk about them. By the time you research all the caveats of how it won't do what you think it'll do I could work some TA on something else.
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Vanguard seems to work fine for me.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
What are your misgivings about ETFs?
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I don't like funds in general.
Then there are ETFs like USO that are borderline fraud. Can't imagine how many people have lost money on that and funds like it. It also lures people into the 2x and 3x leveraged ETFs which are a disaster waiting to happen. That's not leverage, that's lunacy.
 
mikecweb said:
I don't like funds in general.
Then there are ETFs like USO that are borderline fraud. Can't imagine how many people have lost money on that and funds like it. It also lures people into the 2x and 3x leveraged ETFs which are a disaster waiting to happen. That's not leverage, that's lunacy.
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I see your point. Not good having a fund that invests in futures contracts.
 
mikecweb said:
I don't like funds in general.
Then there are ETFs like USO that are borderline fraud. Can't imagine how many people have lost money on that and funds like it. It also lures people into the 2x and 3x leveraged ETFs which are a disaster waiting to happen. That's not leverage, that's lunacy.
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"not a good fit for everyone" is not the same thing as fraud. Some people have unique exposure to certain commodities or sectors, and these can be a convenient hedge.

I like index ETFs, the low fees are more attractive than managed funds, even if the returns are lower.
 
Cessnaflyer said:
I see your point. Not good having a fund that invests in futures contracts.
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Futures are great if you're using them properly. I trade futures, for instance. Proper risk control and money management are extremely crucial. You need to be well-capitalized in order to properly handle even a single contract in swing or position trading.

Then again, I've been on the wrong side of overnight gaps against a position in equities before; at least index futures are much less susceptible to that.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Dude, you should come down here and share the cockpit with the crazies I deal with. It's not just "buy gold," it's "we need to demand that the company pay us in gold! It's the only thing that will have any value when the coming race wars hit!"

No, I'm not joking. Something actually heard from our pilots. More than one of them.
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wow...
 
There will be some economic turmoil when the fed begins to taper off the quantitative easing and inflation begins to kick in. Its anyone's guess as to the extent of what will happen though. Some experts really think there will be a major economic collapse in 2015 or 16... Others think nothing will happen. In the meantime Americans will go about their business.
 
dasleben said:
Futures are great if you're using them properly. I trade futures, for instance. Proper risk control and money management are extremely crucial. You need to be well-capitalized in order to properly handle even a single contract in swing or position trading.

Then again, I've been on the wrong side of overnight gaps against a position in equities before; at least index futures are much less susceptible to that.
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You trade in the futures directly though. The prospectus and fund goals I was reading for the USO ETF are interesting.
 
chrisreedrules said:
There will be some economic turmoil when the fed begins to taper off the quantitative easing and inflation begins to kick in. Its anyone's guess as to the extent of what will happen though. Some experts really think there will be a major economic collapse in 2015 or 16... Others think nothing will happen. In the meantime Americans will go about their business.
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I haven't looked at the graphs closely but it was interesting to see the market fall so much after talks about tapering and then when it was actually started there was not much of a loss. I'm hoping for stagnation of the economy at worst when QE really starts getting cut.
 
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