How low can the mins go?

Re: I\'ve been refraining from jumping in here

I would say most have upgrade in under 5 years. I just took that payscale listed on your company website. Maybe its different or broken down further. You made a statement that I wanted to clarify for the up and coming JCers. You said you didnt want to be working for peanuts, SJS, and bringing down the industry by working for a regional. Some people take this site way to serious and would take what is written in some posts as gospel. Leading them to make decisions based on a few people on an internet website, b/c they think thats the way it is out there.
 
"Let's say you're currently a low-time guy (600-1000 hours) just offered your first interview with a regional. You're happy instructing but want to move on. Would you take the interview, and, subsequently, the job?"

Good question. My philosophy is to never turn down an upward move. CFI to regional is an upward move in a career progression sense, though you may take a pay cut and may have to move. These things have to be weighed in your decision. You learn a lot being a CFI but I wouldn't turn down an upward move. The more time and experience you have, the more you'll bring to the operation of the jet and the more of an asset you'll be to the Capt.

My problem with 300 hour jet F/O's (direct entry programs, ab initio, pfj, ect.) is that they skip the seasoning and experience gained from being a CFI.

To answer your question. Yes, I'd have taken the chance to move up had I been offered such a job in 1984 at 1000 total. I tried to get on at Scenic as an F/O but wasn't good at networking. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have done a PFJ or direct entry program. NOT knowing what I know now, I might have, cause I think I could have got the money together and, after all, I fell for ERAU's "come here and you'll have an easier time finding a job" BS. That's why I'm so about education and anti-misleading marketing. Back in the day, we didn't have the internet where I could see both sides of the story. Nor did I have contacts in the industry to rely on.
 
Now this might step on a lot of toes, but some of the civilian pilots that I've flown with that have no CFI experience have a slightly higher tendency to be a little tyrannical in the cockpit and a little more ready to grab at the yoke when it's your leg.

No, not all.

But I can usually tell the difference a little. Similar to if I spent two legs with a pilot, I can normally tell you if he's former Air Force SAC, MAC, "training command", single-seat fighter, or a former Navy pilot. It's all about the NATOPS baby!
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Just callin it like I see it!!!!!!

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And you see things better from a student perspective than established professionals???

I am calling you out. Please enlighten us to your age, background and ratings as them must humble my mere 21 years in the business.
 
Re: I\'ve been refraining from jumping in here

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Some people take this site way to serious and would take what is written in some posts as gospel. Leading them to make decisions based on a few people on an internet website, b/c they think thats the way it is out there.

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And the same can be said for the people that think regionals are the way to go. There are other options out there...that was my point. I'm not meaning any disrespect to those who chose the regional way, it's just not the only way.

TX
 
Re: I\'ve been refraining from jumping in here

Of course there are other options and have no problems with cargo haulers like ameriflight airnet etc... But when you make comments like you did about how regionals are bringing down the industry and how you didnt want to work for peanuts, some reality needs to be shown at what you are going to be working for in comparison.
 
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[ QUOTE ]
Just callin it like I see it!!!!!!

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And you see things better from a student perspective than established professionals???

I am calling you out. Please enlighten us to your age, background and ratings as them must humble my mere 21 years in the business.

[/ QUOTE ]

DANCE OFF!
 
Re: I\'ve been refraining from jumping in here

Let's ask a few questions:

1) What is the largest airplane you have in your "regional's" system? 50 Pax? 70 pax? 90 pax soon?

2) What is the longest route you fly? 2+ hours? Cross country?

3) Who is your mainline affiliate? Have they lost routes to your regional? Are they going the way of other legacy, or mainlines, and going Intl. only so they can have the regionals haul most people in the US? That used to be against the contracts of mainline and regonal pilots.

We are a cargo airline. We are not taking mainline jobs. We are not cutting into mainline route systems. We fly Lears and old beat up props. We do it well. I kow this is a stepping stone for me. I plan on trying to get into corporate aviation. I'd rather live on a pager for the rest of my life than know I am helping to demise the industry.

I realize it's not the pilots' faults. It's management. Management is the one doing all the bad things to mainline. Management is the one that will pay ya'll peanuts on the dollar from what they paid the mainline guys to take their routes. But you took the job, knowing that you wanted to fly and max out at below $100K/ year for flying what used to be the mainline jobs.

Do not tell me you are not the bottom feeders. I am a cargo pilot, building experience for future jobs. You are surviving on what used to be other pilots' routes and pax.

Just my humble opinion.

TX
 
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DE,
I do respect your viewpoints, but I'd like to know: Let's say you're currently a low-time guy (600-1000 hours) just offered your first interview with a regional. You're happy instructing but want to move on. Would you take the interview, and, subsequently, the job?

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Herein lies the quandry.

Neutrally speaking, I think where most of the pilots that feel "the regionals are bringing the industry down," feel it from this area. With so many pilots desiring to fly jets, move up, etc; management owns the ball. Jon Ornstein, the Mesa Airlines CEO, sums it up brilliantly with this:

"..... look, of course they're [pilots] overpaid. They cut the pay of employees at US Airways by 50 percent and not one person quit as a result, so why the hell was US Airways paying double what they needed to?"

And you know what? He's absolutely, 100% right. No one here wants to admit it, but he is (albeit in a sick kind of way, but right nonetheless). He knows damn good and well that he could pay his pilots a little more than beans, cut their QOL to nothing, and you know what? At the end of the day, he's STILL have tons of resumes on his desk, with more coming in. That's the problem. It's as simple as that. TONS of pilots would love to just fly a jet, so they're willing to do it for nothing. How is any progress in pay or QOL supposed to happen, when pilots are constantly undercutting each other. Sure, pilots will talk about solidarity, working for better benefits, etc. But those with SJS (sadly, the majority of newbies), will turn right around and jump at the chance to fly for nothing. And so the circle continues. This mainly happens at regionals. Everyone knows the way it is, everyone complains about it; yet everyone will be the first to get their foot in the door, stomping over anyone else in their path, in order to get to that right seat and wear a white shirt with 3 stripes. What does this tell management? Well, it reaffirms to people like JO that pilots are suckers that are a dime a dozen......why pay them more, when they're fully willing to work for less?

And that, my friends, is economic brilliance.....sick or not.

Pilots have no one to blame for their situation with the bar lowering, but themselves. Sure, management is a bunch of pricks who take advantage of the pilots. But management is only taking the advantage that pilots give to them with every new doe-eyed, SJS-wanting, 3-stripe salivating, FNG that comes down the pike.

And that, my friends, is a fact.

And THAT, more than anything, is why I personally believe many of the high-time guys resent the regionals.

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Very good post, Mike.
 
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I am calling you out. Please enlighten us to your age, background and ratings

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Age: 31years old
Background: Network admin......wait a minute, are you asking me on a date or what. I'm happily married with child.
Hmmm, 21 years in a business that..........well you see what state this business is in, I wouldn't brag about that.
Hmmmmm, that's like a person who has been divorced numerous times but think they know everything to make a marriage work.

Note: Call me out all you want, but beware because where and how I grew up 'dems is fightin words. PM me if you wanna "call me out".
 
Ok, now that we've showed one another our "wee wee's" just keep it topical and friendly.

This is my living room, after all!
 
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Ok, now that we've showed one another our "wee wee's" just keep it topical and friendly.

This is my living room, after all!

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Sorry bout that Doug, I'm shuttin up now
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...just keep it topical and friendly.

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LMAO
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Doug,
I thought this was going to the lav 4 pages ago??
 
I've been busy on the new forum software so I'm trying to play a game of 'catch up'.

Then I screwed the entire thing up, yowza!
 
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Such amazing unity displayed here. And we wonder why management has a firm hold on our cajones.

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Cajones= Drawers

Cojones= well......what you meant
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Re: I\'ve been refraining from jumping in here

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1) What is the largest airplane you have in your "regional's" system? 50 Pax? 70 pax? 90 pax soon?

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50 seats is the largest, 37 seats the smallest. No plans to get anything larger.

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2) What is the longest route you fly? 2+ hours? Cross country?

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Houston, Texas to Boise, Idaho, about 3.5 hours. Do you think this route could support daily 737 service?

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3) Who is your mainline affiliate? Have they lost routes to your regional? Are they going the way of other legacy, or mainlines, and going Intl. only so they can have the regionals haul most people in the US? That used to be against the contracts of mainline and regonal pilots.

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Continental. They are expanding international ops, but trust me, they still have plenty of 737, 757, and 767 aircraft doing domestic runs and always will as long as they're in business. The RJ allows the airline to expand frequencies and serve markets that would otherwise not be accessible. For instnace, Austin-Houston. This is a 100 NM route. 12 daily 737's and 1 RJ. The RJ is thrown in there for an extra frequency, not justifiable to put another boeing in that time slot. Or Houston-Palm Springs, twice daily RJ service. Probably more convenient for customers than a single 737. Houston-Alexandria, Louisiana. Market too small to be served by mainline sized aircraft. Get my drift?

Sure, there are a few places here and there that used to have mainline service that have been reduced to RJ's. By the same token there are stations that used to have nothing but regional service that are now served by mainline. It's a give and take, back and forth depending on what the market can support.

Somebody slap me if I'm starting to sound like an RJDC douchebag. I'm all for the success of mainline, and we should only be around to support what they do, not replace them. This might be the goal of Johnny O and a few other regional Executives....but I don't think it's the objective of our company, and definitely not the objective of the pilots.
 
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