How long will the hiring boom last?

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Matt13C

Matt13C

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Realistically speaking, how long do you think the hiring boom for pilots will last? I am working my way up and one day will be a pilot but I am getting conflicting views.

Some say to bypass getting my CFI, CFII and MEI in favor of just getting up to 500TT 50ME and get on with a regional. But if there is a downturn and the newbies get furloughed I am left with no way of making an income.

Personally, I want to get my Instructor ratings because I feel it will make me a better pilot. But if it means I will forgo a year of seniority I might skip getting them.

What do you think the outlook is, as people actually in the industry? I place no faith in what "analysts" say.

Thanks

Matt
 
I have no experience with airlines other than the research I do here and there...

But I am a CFI, and I can tell you that my flying has improved exponentially since I became a flight instructor. I'm currently working on my CFII in hopes that it does the same thing for my instrument proficiency.

Get the CFI. Gives you experience, as well as a fall back!
 
I wouldn't bypass the flight instructor certificates. Besides, getting them doesn't mean a year of seniority wasted. It takes a few weeks to get all three. It's some more money to spend but you'll be a better pilot after some dual given, I assure you as will many others on here.

Of course, try not to waste time along the way, but I don't think instructing is a waste of your time.

Oil is getting more expensive by the day, and as that happens the airlines are going to have to find a solution. By the time you have what today's regional minimums are, they could be back up to 1500TT as they were 48 months ago.

Where in Philly are you?
 
Hopefully for awhile. I've still got a few hundred hours to go.

Then I can start instructing, and after awhile of doing that I hope someones still around. :bandit:
 
Nick said:
I wouldn't bypass the flight instructor certificates. Besides, getting them doesn't mean a year of seniority wasted. It takes a few weeks to get all three. It's some more money to spend but you'll be a better pilot after some dual given, I assure you as will many others on here.

Of course, try not to waste time along the way, but I don't think instructing is a waste of your time.

Oil is getting more expensive by the day, and as that happens the airlines are going to have to find a solution. By the time you have what today's regional minimums are, they could be back up to 1500TT as they were 48 months ago.

Where in Philly are you?
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Yeah, the oil problem is what prompted the question. I am just wondering what the economy slowing, oil shooting through the roof and the dollar falling will mean for the airline industry.

I planned on flight instructing because the regionals I want to work for have not come down to the ultra low hiring mins that others have, if they did it might be tempting. Plus I want to be a proficient pilot, I don't want some captain to have to babysit me.

I am just north of Philly in Bucks County.

JDMcFly said:
Hopefully for awhile. I've still got a few hundred hours to go.

Then I can start instructing, and after awhile of doing that I hope someones still around. :bandit:
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HA HA Same here! I wish I would have started once I graduated college, stupid desk job flaunted easy money in my face!:banghead:
 
Matt13C said:
I am just north of Philly in Bucks County.
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That's where I am at the moment, too.


Anyway as far as the topic goes, if you want to work for places with higher minimums than what you have in the logbook at the time, I would get the flight time instead of changing your standards.
 
I have actually made the decision myself to start working on the CFI. As is often said on the forums, CFIing makes you into so much of a better pilot. The airline industry is cyclic, you just have to take life each day on its merrit. One way or another, your time will come. Hard but true. The airlines arent going anywhere. Atleast your know that with your CFI certificates, you'll have a flying job in the event the company your working for furlough. Best of luck with your training and keep your head up.
 
I bypassed the CFI/CFII/MEI certificates because I couldn't afford them nor able to obtain more student loans. I didn't have the cash, was unemployed, and had an airline job offer waiving in front of me. What do you think I decided to do? :)

In the future, I will earn my CFI and CFII in order to have a spare flying job to fall back on.
 
The dollar sucks and the price of oil keeps increasing. I've got no sympathy for anyone who got hired with 250TT and a RJ course and gets furloughed and cant find a job. Get your CFI. My CFI initial is on Tuesday, and without even having the rating yet, just studying and preparing for it, I can tell you I have learned more about aviation and being a pilot than during any of the 400 preceeding hours.
 
flyguy969 said:
I trained in Philly at Hortman Aviation. What flight school do you go to?
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I am at Royal Karina currently. I am looking into Hortman and Triangle Aviation to get my Instrument through MEI. I have heard great things about both schools it all depends on if I decide to stay local and work full time and fly after work and weekends or move to Florida and fly full time for 5 months to get all my ratings.

I am leaning towards staying here and working though, the less debt the better.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Do NOT bypass the CFI route. There's just no reason to.
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I disagree. Earning an instructor certificate does not make you a good teacher. If you're not a good teacher, then working as instructor is not what you should be doing. It's one thing to be able to fly an airplane. It's another to be able to teach someone else fly it.
 
I can only speak from what I think my current company is going to do.

Some numbers.

Sept-Dec 07: Average new hire class sizes were 24.
Dec-Jan 08: Two classes per month, each with 20 students.
Feb 08: Two classes, one 20 (or 22 I can't remember), and then mine - 15.

Now I don't have concrete numbers for the next TWO classes, but over hearing our head of pilot hiring/basic indoc coordinator it sounds as if we are having trouble filling our classes, and as such, are just looking at another two 15 person classes in the next month. I think the lake is starting to dry up, and these companies are starting to get desperate. . .which is good for the RJ transition course kiddies, but bad for those of us who are trying to remember that this is a serious profession that can kill people.

Also, some interesting numbers from a previous interview. 8 were scheduled, 4 rescheduled close to last minute, 2 had travel issues, and 1 called saying he would not be coming in. So how many showed up? 1 person. . .just one.
 
Hiring boom? I think its on the backside of the hill right now to be honest. Its only a matter of time before things go back to being slow in the hiring department. With the exception of a few Regionals and a few Majors, I would say the majority are slowing up a bit. SkyW, Xjet and Comair just to name a few.

I say go for your CFI tickets. Try your best to learn how to become a teacher and your skills will benefit.

Sidenote: You're getting ripped off at Royal Karina. They don't care about training people who are interested in this as a career and their prices are high. I would definitely look into Hortman or some other school in NE Philly. Maybe even ATP's 10-month program at TTN.
 
I'm not against the CFI route, but if the industry experiences a downturn I would think the CFI jobs will be affected as well. From a job security standpoint, I wouldn't count on the "fallback" of a CFI rating. Some of the post I've read seem to think of a CFI as a backup (and hopefully it would be)...I just wouldn't count on it.
 
jwp_145 said:
I have no experience with airlines other than the research I do here and there...

But I am a CFI, and I can tell you that my flying has improved exponentially since I became a flight instructor. I'm currently working on my CFII in hopes that it does the same thing for my instrument proficiency.

Get the CFI. Gives you experience, as well as a fall back!
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I agree, you'll definately learn alot, especially with instrument students. Try to take them up at least once in actual, its quite an experience.
 
skydog said:
I disagree. Earning an instructor certificate does not make you a good teacher. If you're not a good teacher, then working as instructor is not what you should be doing. It's one thing to be able to fly an airplane. It's another to be able to teach someone else fly it.
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I think that is a very lame excuse that a lot of people use as rationilization to justify their decision to not become a flight instructor. Most of the people using this excuse have absolutely no idea whether they would be a good instructor or not, because they have put little to no effort at all, and if they do put in mininmal effort, at the first sign of this being difficult they proclaim "i'm not good at teaching, I shouldn't be an instructor". BS. Of course there will be some people who after a lot of practice and effort, just don't have it cut out in them to teach, but i'm willing to bet that an overwhelming majority of the people using this excuse never make it that far to know if they can suceed or not.
 
MikeOH58 said:
I think that is a very lame excuse that a lot of people use as rationilization to justify their decision to not become a flight instructor. Most of the people using this excuse have absolutely no idea whether they would be a good instructor or not, because they have put little to no effort at all, and if they do put in mininmal effort, at the first sign of this being difficult they proclaim "i'm not good at teaching, I shouldn't be an instructor". BS. Of course there will be some people who after a lot of practice and effort, just don't have it cut out in them to teach, but i'm willing to bet that an overwhelming majority of the people using this excuse never make it that far to know if they can suceed or not.
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Way to go Mikey!!! :D

I agree. Some people might be better teachers than others, but just about everyone can do it. Its not just about teaching though. Its about leadership, responsibility, courage and patience!

Without a doubt, the BEST Captains are the ones who were Flight Instructors. They know how to lead by example and treat the person in the right seat with some respect and make them active members in the decision process.
 
Airdale said:
Hiring boom? I think its on the backside of the hill right now to be honest. Its only a matter of time before things go back to being slow in the hiring department. With the exception of a few Regionals and a few Majors, I would say the majority are slowing up a bit. SkyW, Xjet and Comair just to name a few.

I say go for your CFI tickets. Try your best to learn how to become a teacher and your skills will benefit.

Sidenote: You're getting ripped off at Royal Karina. They don't care about training people who are interested in this as a career and their prices are high. I would definitely look into Hortman or some other school in NE Philly. Maybe even ATP's 10-month program at TTN.
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Yeah, I know they are expensive. I am not really sure why either. Their planes are well kept but they are all bare bones, no glass, no auto pilot just instruments and a very basic GPS. I like my instructor, he is a very good pilot and a great teacher. When I started I was thinking I would just get my private and maybe instrument. But now that I want this to be my career I am looking to move on to a place more career oriented after I get my private, maybe sooner.

Even if companies are still hiring like they are now in a few months I still will most likely get my CFI(I). I am not just doing this because I want to fly the heavies, I really just love flying and want to be the best I can be. I agree that teaching people allows you to build your own skill set and make you a better leader.

What is the industry normally like? Before companies started dropping their mins and upgrading people in two years, what was normal? 4 year upgrades, 15 years paying dues before you get a chance to move to a Major? This wont be a detriment, I am just wondering what it will be like when I get my foot in the door.
 
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