How is FAR 117 negatively impacting you?

L-16B said:
How many hard lines are there in IAH 737? The large amount probably helps get a lot of quality pairings. Don't forget I fly a lot of regional like pairings.
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We don't have hard lines. I've been bidding reserve on purpose these last few months for the holidays off. For January, I just bid to avoid certain cities, high credit, max days off.

The only thing I noticed on my fleet is more Caribbean layovers when I briefly looked at the bid packet for January.
 
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How FAR 117 impacts you depends on the type of contract you have. If you have a decent contract with good protections, you probably won't see much change.

If you're working at a bottom feeder with a contract that blows, then yea, you're going to get dinged.

Richman
 
Seggy said:
We don't have hard lines. I've been bidding reserve on purpose these last few months for the holidays off. For January, I just bid to avoid certain cities, high credit, max days off.

The only thing I noticed on my fleet is more Caribbean layovers when I briefly looked at the bid packet for January.
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How many line holders, or people off reserve are there?
 
Richman said:
How FAR 117 impacts you depends on the type of contract you have. If you have a decent contract with good protections, you probably won't see much change.

If you're working at a bottom feeder with a contract that blows, then yea, you're going to get dinged.

Richman
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We have great contractual protections. Just no pay.

75% DH, 100% CX, 4 hour min day, etc. etc. We have the Mesaba concessionary contract to thank for it, because the other two airlines brought zero to the table.
 
The next important question is:

@Seggy @L-16B @BobDDuck @Derg @Cptnchia @CaptBill

Across seniorities, and airlines, what can a new hire to 20 year guy expect for days off and blocks of days at a major?

Is there such thing as "load schedule" at the majors, where you can do a chunk of flying at one end of a month, or the middle, and get large (10+) blocks of days off? Can you use such a feature in back to back months to create almost one month free from flying?
 
Under current rules, yes. Guys are loading the beginning and end of the month and getting huge blocks off in the middle. Post rule change that won't happen. Now I see guys getting anywhere between 9 (by choice dropping below 12) to 19 days off.
 
Well, if the rules change the game that much... there is zero incentive for this job anymore...

who would have thought a piece of legislation could so change the rules of the game. The point of this biz is lots of time off! Lots of time off in chunks so that we might use the travel benefits that we pay for....

Say it ain't so joe... I would not have donated to ALPA PAC had I known I was supporting such a reduction in QOL.
 
Its too soon to tell what it will really be like. I think after the end of the year and a full season has gone by we will know the full aspect of this. My guess is overall youll lose about 1 day per month of off time.
 
cencal83406 said:
Well, if the rules change the game that much... there is zero incentive for this job anymore...

who would have thought a piece of legislation could so change the rules of the game. The point of this biz is lots of time off! Lots of time off in chunks so that we might use the travel benefits that we pay for....

Say it ain't so joe... I would not have donated to ALPA PAC had I known I was supporting such a reduction in QOL.
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Did you email ALPA yet and see what their response is before you blame them?
 
cencal83406 said:
We have great contractual protections. Just no pay.

75% DH, 100% CX, 4 hour min day, etc. etc. We have the Mesaba concessionary contract to thank for it, because the other two airlines brought zero to the table.
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Any regional is probably going to be short staffed compared to a major, and 117 will exacerbate it. You're not going to be able to single crew the late night terminators and the early morning departures and then run your crews ragged. The elimination of legal to start/legal to finish will create all kinds of scheduling hijinks.

Had the industry been able to police itself, government wouldn't have had to step in with 117 and the ATP rule. Usually this kind of change takes decades, but we got a two-fer in the same year.

It takes a LOT to get the attention of Congress. I mean a LOT. Yet the industry managed to do it, and get not one, but two rules that were essentially game changers.

Richman
 
cencal83406 said:
The next important question is:

@Seggy @L-16B @BobDDuck @Derg @Cptnchia @CaptBill

Across seniorities, and airlines, what can a new hire to 20 year guy expect for days off and blocks of days at a major?

Is there such thing as "load schedule" at the majors, where you can do a chunk of flying at one end of a month, or the middle, and get large (10+) blocks of days off? Can you use such a feature in back to back months to create almost one month free from flying?
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Believe it or not it was easier to load ur schedule at the beginning or end of the month at pinnacle via pbs. Airways is still line bidding on paper. But senior guys get 18-20 days off a month. I've heard from airbus guys the new rules hurt commutability.
 
Thanks @L-16B ... I know that once I get* a mainline job, it'll be low man on the totem pole for a while, but I could sure go for some QOL and cash to match. It's not for everyone, but the ability to be so flexible schedule-wise is what keeps me showing up. I love my job while I'm there, and I love my off time too.

* contingent upon getting an invitation to interview and impressing the folks who take the time to chat with me enough to get a CJO, passing training, and surviving a year of probation.
 
cencal83406 said:
Thanks @L-16B ... I know that once I get* a mainline job, it'll be low man on the totem pole for a while, but I could sure go for some QOL and cash to match. It's not for everyone, but the ability to be so flexible schedule-wise is what keeps me showing up. I love my job while I'm there, and I love my off time too.

* contingent upon getting an invitation to interview and impressing the folks who take the time to chat with me enough to get a CJO, passing training, and surviving a year of probation.
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Don't look at it like that. I got hired in August and will have a line for February. Lots of movement soon u will be fine. Junior lines are 14-16 days off.
 
jtrain609 said:
Min days off used to be at line 50 out of 150 in Newark.

Now they're at 25.

That was to hold 13 days off.

So it doesn't really change anything for us. Nobody except the top few percentage points of any base and seat ever had more than min days off anyway, and everybody was already working weekends, and nothing was commutable.

So really, nothing changes here. The schedules were terrible before, and they're terrible now. At least now we won't be given 5 hours of sleep during recovery operations, which has pretty much been the last 2 weeks.
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"YOU'RE GONNA BE MIN DAYS OFF FOR MIN MONTHLY GUARANTEE! DESTRUCTION!"

"Begging your pardon, but us mid-seniority lineholders have been that way since the beginning of time. Carry on, surf more."
 
How is 117 negatively affecting me? Well at my company, in spite of being told by management for months they were "out in front" off 117 and anticipated having no problems..... Bid awards for January have been "delayed"...... Always remember, if an airline managers lips are moving, they are lying....
 
Got my January bids. As expected, nothing really changed other than no more scheduled 8 hour overnights. (IOW, the pairings are back to where they were when I started on this airplane.)

Carry on.
 
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