how high above a thunderstorm should you pass?

cmill said:
It wasnt the first time ive penetrated bad wx, and it prolly wont be the last. When its 3am, you're short on gas, and have no kind of wx radar to find a "big hole" you do what you can to accomplish the mission and make it out without bending metal.
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There is no justifiable reason for a civilian pilot to have the "complete the mission at all cost" mind set. Penetrating some "bad weather" is one thing, but no one should be out there penetrating TRWs. No job is worth being forced to fly through that stuff.

I have been plowing around in a plane capable of cruising at FL510 for over 8 years. I do not recommend anyone trying to "top" weather anywhere near their a/c's max ceiling. Any kind of shear or downdraft is going to plant you firmly in the top of something you didn't want to be near. Another consideration is that radar is pretty worthless above FL400. Everything is frozen and doesn't attenuate well/at all.
 
NJA_Capt said:
There is no justifiable reason for a civilian pilot to have the "complete the mission at all cost" mind set. Penetrating some "bad weather" is one thing, but no one should be out there penetrating TRWs. No job is worth being forced to fly through that stuff.
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Amen to that. And to add to the last sentence, no flight is so important as to pressure oneself to do so either. Lots of pilots who do this either pressure themselves to do it, or didn't know the TRW was there to begin with (don't ask me how, it's just some of the reasons I've heard given).
 
cmill said:
Thats great in a jet, which I only have about 100hrs in. My only valuable experience comes from zig-zagging at 5,000 ft. I sometimes forget that some people can detour 200NM and still show up relatively on time.
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When I'm dealing with storms, being on time is about number 100 on my top 100 list of things that are important to me.
 
NJA_Capt said:
There is no justifiable reason for a civilian pilot to have the "complete the mission at all cost" mind set. Penetrating some "bad weather" is one thing, but no one should be out there penetrating TRWs. No job is worth being forced to fly through that stuff.

I have been plowing around in a plane capable of cruising at FL510 for over 8 years. I do not recommend anyone trying to "top" weather anywhere near their a/c's max ceiling. Any kind of shear or downdraft is going to plant you firmly in the top of something you didn't want to be near. Another consideration is that radar is pretty worthless above FL400. Everything is frozen and doesn't attenuate well/at all.
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:clap::clap:

And another :clap: for the RADAR comment.

-mini
 
mikecweb said:
What's #56?
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For me, 56 is how wrinkled my shirt is going to be when we get to our destination. Short leg/cooler temps = less wrinkles.

EDIT: Thunderstorms are bad mojo. It's one thing to top the little building cells in the teens and low twenties. It's a whole other issue to try to top a monster building into the 30s.
 
As you well know, storms can build at an alarming rate. We once deviated around a buildup down near Freeport, Bahamas. When we first made the turn, a good 20 miles from the cell, it couldn't have been any higher than 15,000 feet. By the time we got abeam it 3 minutes later, it was WELL above our altitude of FL390. You could actually see it billowing up and forming into a picture perfect thunderstorm. I'd say the tops were at least FL450. Had we tried to top it, we'd have been swallowed whole.
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
As you well know, storms can build at an alarming rate. We once deviated around a buildup down near Freeport, Bahamas. When we first made the turn, a good 20 miles from the cell, it couldn't have been any higher than 15,000 feet. By the time we got abeam it 3 minutes later, it was WELL above our altitude of FL390. You could actually see it billowing up and forming into a picture perfect thunderstorm. I'd say the tops were at least FL450. Had we tried to top it, we'd have been swallowed whole.
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Chicken;)
 
TFaudree_ERAU said:
As you well know, storms can build at an alarming rate. We once deviated around a buildup down near Freeport, Bahamas. When we first made the turn, a good 20 miles from the cell, it couldn't have been any higher than 15,000 feet. By the time we got abeam it 3 minutes later, it was WELL above our altitude of FL390. You could actually see it billowing up and forming into a picture perfect thunderstorm. I'd say the tops were at least FL450. Had we tried to top it, we'd have been swallowed whole.
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Thats no joke! Here in the midwest they get HUGE! The highest I have seen on the weather reports had one topping at 73,000 feet.
 
If you're flying pax, just go around.

It's not worth the risk of an injured cabin crewmember because you wanted to save a couple miles.
 
Another vote for "no reason to even attempt to top them".

Remember that a T-storm is a spot of immense convective activity. It can spit updrafts and downdrafts that extend well beyond the top of visible cloud, plus hail and lots of other goodies.

Read "The Man Who Rode The Thunder" and you'll never want to attempt it.
 
Just to echo TFaudree, some of these things have vertical development rates well into the thousands of feet per minute. They can easily out-climb aircraft trying to top them. If you get into an area where orthographic lifting is present, you can really be in a world of hurt.

Case in point, I crossed the Green Mountains in Vermont about 10 miles from the IAF on an approach once. There were a few towering cumulus clouds in the area, but nothing more than 15,000' or so. Going through them just resulted in a few bumps. As I hit the IAF and started the procedure turn, the same towering cumulus (both near the IAF and on the approach) began painting yellow on the radar. As I completed the procedure turn and faced inbound toward the airport, sections on the final approach course were suddenly painting red. Not wanting to penetrate something of that strength, I did another turn in the hold to get a better sense of what I was dealing with. As I rolled out on the inbound course again, it was all painting red. In less than 10 minutes, 15,000' towering cumulus had become 50+ dBZ monsters.

In the ensuing hilarity (trying to divert out of there), I managed to knock a manifold pressure line loose by pushing through an embedded developing cell at Va. It was the only way out, having been cornered by this massive building line that was just going crazy.

So, moral of the story: GO AROUND!
 
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