How going cheap nearly killed somebody

jrh

Well-Known Member
This afternoon I found out about a terrifyingly interesting situation with another flight school's aircraft.

Before I say what happened, a little background is in order.

This other operation's entire philosophy is basically, "We can do it cheaper." Make it as cheap as possible. Flying is too expensive. Make it cheap. Cheap planes, cheap instructors, cheap facilities, you name it. It's all about flying as cheap as possible.

They have a couple old planes with the lowest rental rates in the area. Their instructors are independent contractors who charge $25/hour. They don't have an office, they just work out of an FBO's lobby.

They're loved by all the pilots in the area who have the same mindset of always trying to scrape by in order to get in the air. I routinely have to explain to prospective customers why my school quotes $4,000 more for a private license than this other operator.

In order to save costs, this place does not do their maintenance with a very well respected maintenance shop, located at their home base, that is known to never cut a corner or miss a detail. Instead, they fly the planes out to a small town airport about an hour's flight away where the local mechanic handles the 100 hour and annual inspections.

There have been days when their plane will leave the home base at 8 a.m. for an inspection 100 miles away and return by 4 p.m. the same day. For those doing the math, that's a max of 6 hours to complete an annual inspection.

Ok, by now I'm sure you're wondering what happened today.

Apparently for the past several weeks rental pilots have been complaining of an exhaust smell in the cockpit. For some reason the plane was taken to the reputable shop at the home base to investigate the problem. When the exhaust shroud for the heater was removed, the mechanic found the exhaust pipe not just cracked, but broken in two. That's right...one pipe, two pieces.

Good grief...the only way to get more exhaust in to the cockpit would probably be to just run the exhaust pipe straight in to the window.

How long it flew like that? I have no idea. But I know exhaust pipes don't break in two overnight.

I was shocked nobody had died. How that plane got through the winter months, I couldn't tell you.

But you know what really pissed me off about this whole deal, aside from the fact that innocent people almost died because of shoddy maintenance? The operation has no regard for how their cheapness affects other people. If their plane had gone down, it would have looked terrible for the whole local aviation community. Fewer people would be interested in learning to fly. Fewer people would see aviation as a safe, realistic way to travel. Fewer people would trust our school, even though we have top notch maintenance and never cut corners.

I'm getting wound up now, so I better stop. Just something to think about when you're comparing prices at your local airports.
 
That's a scary thought! :panic: I don't know anything about that flight school, but it sounds pretty shady. Nothing worse than bad maintenance...:banghead:
 
It amazes me that people don't seem to get that sometimes you get what you paid for.
It's fine to save money and all, but don't be shocked when the service sucks.
 
I really, really wish places would go back to renting aircraft that are less expensive to rent in the first place. Ie., an older 172 with a VFR panel, 150/152s, Cherokee 140s, etc. Basic airplanes have less to break and the hull values are lower, which generally translates to cheaper insurance.

Everyone wants to put <5 year old airplanes out on the line, with glass cockpits or every type of nav radio and GPS known to mankind in them and wonders why business is slow. Not surprisingly, it is the ~$100/hr airplanes that do most of the flying at my club.
 
Actually I can tell you from experience that exhaust pipes sometimes DO break in two overnight. Doesn't sound like that's the case here, of course. Cheap isn't always bad, I'd much rather pay 85 an hour for a basically safe airplane with some broken plastic than 125 an hour for a sparkly new version of the same old airplane. But it's a fine line that a flight school must walk.
 
Sudden and extreme temperature change, coupled with a good backfire can do it... IE, slamming the power in too lean, or yanking it out after running hard.

I've seen a mooney leave the bottom half of the muffler stack on the runway when applying go around power(newer ovation)

Generally it happens to older metals that have been fatigued in the past though, and typically for it to actually "break" means it went suddenly Cracks don't normaly tend to propogate around a cylender in the way that would cause it to snap off, but they may weaken the area enough so that a sudden shock or explosion will fracture it .
 
How?

Not calling you a liar or anything...I've just never heard of it and don't understand what would cause it.

The ones I've seen are usually from warped flanges, excessive temperatures, who knows what else... maybe even bad metallurgy. One had just received a 100hr inspection the previous day.

All this said, I think people should speak with their wallets more often. Really, most of the FBO's on any given field charge almost the same price for the same product. Some are in better condition than others and if people would reward the owners that go the extra mile to take care of their airplanes then the owners who don't will quickly learn that they must.
 
Sudden and extreme temperature change, coupled with a good backfire can do it... IE, slamming the power in too lean, or yanking it out after running hard.

I've seen a mooney leave the bottom half of the muffler stack on the runway when applying go around power(newer ovation)

Generally it happens to older metals that have been fatigued in the past though, and typically for it to actually "break" means it went suddenly Cracks don't normaly tend to propogate around a cylender in the way that would cause it to snap off, but they may weaken the area enough so that a sudden shock or explosion will fracture it .

I learn something new every day! Thanks for the info.
 
which flight school is it or the airport?

I'd rather not say on a public forum. I don't want to be accused of libel or anything.

My point in telling the story was to get people to think beyond doing their flying with whoever is cheapest. This scenario could be played out at dozens of schools or airports across the country.
 
Without pictures, an mechanic's report, an ntsb report, it does sound a little like a rumor about a competitor. but I am sure you have good sources.
 
Cheap....? Where I rent and do my training the plane is $120 and hour pluse $37 HR for my instructor and this plane is a 1978 cessna 172..I do not know where those cheaper prices come from so I am a little shocked..Oh also we do not have glass panels the bells and whistles in these planes either, just the old fashined way which I like.. They also do have the 100 hour and keep up with their planes constanly which I like.

Question, am I apying a lot or is this about what is cost usually.. I am already in to them about 6800.00 so far and have no issue it, but curious.
 
If anyone has ever read the IRS guidelines for independent contractors I don't see how they would risk the hit from the IRS for not doing payroll and SS taxes.

If you are paying a school money for the airplane and instructor, and they are paying them as independent contractors, they are breaking the law. Happens all the time, but it is not legit. Places that do that are frankly "fly by night."
 
I learn something new every day! Thanks for the info.

:yeahthat:

Here is my two cents worth. I am in the steel industry. Excessive heating and cooling can cause residual stress in metal. So warped flanges, improper mountings can cause cracks and breaks. Although I will say that the materials used in aircraft, big and little, meet very exacting standards.
 
If you are paying a school money for the airplane and instructor, and they are paying them as independent contractors, they are breaking the law. Happens all the time, but it is not legit. Places that do that are frankly "fly by night."

I have flown at one flight school that seemed to be doing the ind. contractor thing correctly. But, by and large, most places should be treating the instructors as employees (for tax purposes, anyway). [/OT]
 
Question, am I apying a lot or is this about what is cost usually.. I am already in to them about 6800.00 so far and have no issue it, but curious.

Your instructor rate is cheap, no matter where you go.
Your C-172 rate is not cheap for many places. New Jersey is probably a lot more expensive than out here in the mid-west. I would call other New Jersey flight schools to get your answer.
 
Similar place near me- the culture is based on cheapness at all cost. Instructor (independent contractor, of course) pay is ~10/hr less than standard rates for the area, students get ridiculed for squawking mx items, many CFIs teach to NEVER use the landing light since they're so expensive, many airplanes have no shoulder harnesses, which I view as standard 1980s-era safety items. I was ridiculed for asking why they weren't installed in all the airplanes "well if you go out and buy them, we'll put them in". Nice...lets turn a walk-away off-airport landing into a fatality.
We all know flying is expensive, but at some point on the ROI scale, you end up losing by trying to save money.
 
Similar place near me- the culture is based on cheapness at all cost. Instructor (independent contractor, of course) pay is ~10/hr less than standard rates for the area, students get ridiculed for squawking mx items, many CFIs teach to NEVER use the landing light since they're so expensive, many airplanes have no shoulder harnesses, which I view as standard 1980s-era safety items. I was ridiculed for asking why they weren't installed in all the airplanes "well if you go out and buy them, we'll put them in". Nice...lets turn a walk-away off-airport landing into a fatality.
We all know flying is expensive, but at some point on the ROI scale, you end up losing by trying to save money.


I try to discourage landing light use during the day unless visibility is poor, it's not that they're expensive, but that they only last around 25 hours and if you burn them all day Murphy's law says they'll go out on someone at night when they really need it.

I completely agree with you on the shoulder harness point.
 
I'd rather not say on a public forum. I don't want to be accused of libel or anything.

My point in telling the story was to get people to think beyond doing their flying with whoever is cheapest. This scenario could be played out at dozens of schools or airports across the country.

It is probably going on far more than we care to realize. In fact, I'd be willing to bet it doesn't just happen at the "cheaper" schools. Airplane maintenance doesn't seem like a great item to skimp on, when looking at costs, but I'd bet many flight schools look for cheaper mechanics, than looking for those that actually do a meticulous job, in an effort to save on costs.

I think it is great that you brought this story up. I think one of the biggest questions you can ask any flight school you are considering, is about their maintenance.
 
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