How does UND work?

[av8or91]

When I came here I thought I would go straight to the airlines after graduation. Obviously times have changed but one of my students still believes he is going to fly a CRJ after doing the CRJ course. I tried to tell him but didnt want to burst his bubble. I think a lot of students are completely oblivious to the industry right now.

 

[Thunder-Robo]

When I came here I thought I would go straight to the airlines after graduation. Obviously times have changed but one of my students still believes he is going to fly a CRJ after doing the CRJ course. I tried to tell him but didnt want to burst his bubble. I think a lot of students are completely oblivious to the industry right now.

So true. No one's hiring here, so we're all SOL unless you're willing to be based in India, China, ect.. Cathy, Air China, Air India, ect... is still doing their cadet program, so that should give you an idea oh how things are there... (Although i would not usually put Cathy and HongKong in the same category as the other aforementioned)

 

[WIFlyBoy]

Dominic.D?

Nope.

 

[WIFlyBoy]

There are also some phenomenal CFI's here, sadly for every one of those, there are 10 retard instructors that shouldn't be teaching. Throughout my training here I have been pretty fortunate, only having 1 bad instructor. A big contributor to this lack of good CFI ratio is the recent hiring. It used to be very competitive and hard to be a CFI here, recently UND went with the policy of "you've got a cfi certificate and a pulse? heres a job".

 

[av8or91]

There are also some phenomenal CFI's here, sadly for every one of those, there are 10 retard instructors that shouldn't be teaching. Throughout my training here I have been pretty fortunate, only having 1 bad instructor. A big contributor to this lack of good CFI ratio is the recent hiring. It used to be very competitive and hard to be a CFI here, recently UND went with the policy of "you've got a cfi certificate and a pulse? heres a job".

Your absolutely right there are some good instructors here. How did those instructors become good? By instructing a good amount so people have to start somewhere. When those good instructor leave for bigger things, those people who are not as good right now are going to be some of the best. Its a cycle.

Hiring was competetive but I think during the last hiring session if you had boobs and vagina you were in. Not saying its a bad thing or being sexist but there were definitely some more experienced instructors who did not get the job.

 

[BIGRIG]

A lot of truth to this. So many kids go to UND and dont have a clue what they are going to do when they graduate. People always ask me what im going to do after i graduate and I tell them it involves flight instruction in a 172/180 on floats and a Caravan on amphibs, along with some other 135 stuff. Everyone says thats cool, but when i ask them what they are going to do, no one has any idea. Most fall into the "well i think ill just try to be an instructor at UND", so if thats what you want to do go for it. You will find many individuals that are here just becuase mommy and daddy want them to be and have no clue.

You will definetly trained to be a UND bubble pilot unless you get certain instructors. Most just follow the UND standarization BS and try to teach you to be an airline pilot(so they say), i think its all BS, but ill leave that up to you. Like Thunder-Robo said, there are way too many policies and procedures that make flying a chore to complete on time.

My biggest complaint is that its not what flying is supposed to be, but thats the way things are done here, like it or not.

I think i see it differently than most others, since i came here with outside training. Unlike most students here, the only flying experience they have is UND. Go out and see the real flying world, not the UND bubble.

Ahhhhh.......What's the percentage of college students (in any field) who know what they're are going to do once they graduate? I don't know for sure but I bet its not too many. This argument doesn't hold water.

Oh and to the know-it-all UND bashers that complain about how much it costs to go to UND, how about kids that go to schools like BU and BC only to graduate with a degree in teaching? They pay upwards of $120,000 dollars only to get paid $30,000/yr teaching 1st grade-pretty close to what FO's get paid. Do you think that they cry and moan about how much their education costs? They could have gone to an in-state school and done it for cheaper, but didn't. Instead of crying about how much you hate GF and UND try and find something to do instead of COMPLAIN online. Nobody likes whiners (Reference aviators from TX).

 

[TXaviator]

Ahhhhh.......What's the percentage of college students (in any field) who know what they're are going to do once they graduate? I don't know for sure but I bet its not too many. This argument doesn't hold water.

Oh and to the know-it-all UND bashers that complain about how much it costs to go to UND, how about kids that go to schools like BU and BC only to graduate with a degree in teaching? They pay upwards of $120,000 dollars only to get paid $30,000/yr teaching 1st grade-pretty close to what FO's get paid. Do you think that they cry and moan about how much their education costs? They could have gone to an in-state school and done it for cheaper, but didn't. Instead of crying about how much you hate GF and UND try and find something to do instead of COMPLAIN online. Nobody likes whiners (Reference aviators from TX).

or you could compare apples to apples, ie - other highly skilled professional degrees. doctors come to mind. put in a lot of time and money into training, and most of them know exactly what they want to do when they get out, and are equipped with the skills to do so. and they earn appropriately for their skills learned in college/medical school.

and yeah bigrig, good idea, ill whine less and go back to WORK flying planes. what are you doing these days?

 

[BIGRIG]

or you could compare apples to apples, ie - other highly skilled professional degrees. doctors come to mind. put in a lot of time and money into training, and most of them know exactly what they want to do when they get out, and are equipped with the skills to do so. and they earn appropriately for their skills learned in college/medical school.

and yeah bigrig, good idea, ill whine less and go back to WORK flying planes. what are you doing these days?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA your comparing doctors to pilots!!!!?? I am sorry but comparing a four year aviation degree to going to medical school is not even close. Don't insult doctors like that. I think you are living a dream if you think that anything YOU do is on the same level as a doctor. You're giving yourself way too much credit.

Bottom line is that UND provides a service to people that are looking at getting into the aviation career field. They can only charge people what the going rate is. I ask you guys if UND instructors are so bad, why are there so many of their pilots out in the aviation industry right now doing everything from instructing to flying 135/121 and doing it well?

 

[Thunder-Robo]

Ahhhhh.......What's the percentage of college students (in any field) who know what they're are going to do once they graduate? I don't know for sure but I bet its not too many. This argument doesn't hold water.

Anyone who is being educated in a skill profession will probably know where'd like they end up once they graduate... We're not talking about english or music majors here...

Are the properly educated about the actual job market? probably not.

 

[oktex88]

Seeing my CFI trying to teach me about spins after he/she has only done two spin flights herself is Laughable. Most Canadian Private Pilots have more spin time then the average UND CFI, (with exception of the Acro and spin instructors of course)

Ummm...this VERY normal in the US for CFIs to only have a couple of spin flights. UND isn't in Canada.

Learning to fly on a glass cockpit from the start is really nothing more then a builder of bad habits.

Or learning in a glass cockpit is preparing you for the future.

 

[oktex88]

and "quality of training"...

well....i think 7 landing/takeoff incidents or accidents in the past 60 days, that speaks for itself. including one hull loss and one gear-upped seminole *with an instructor on board*...

duhhhhhh :clap:

Do you even know how many hours UND flys in a month compared to all the other flight schools? I would be suprised if there was not at least one incident every week.

I do not see how ONE person making a human mistake relates to the "quality of training" UND provides. There are many high time experienced pilots that have landed gear up. We are human.

I think we just have a few people here who got out of UND on the low part of the hiring curve and are a little bitter about it.

 

[Thunder-Robo]

Ummm...this VERY normal in the US for CFIs to only have a couple of spin flights. UND isn't in Canada.

Like i was pointing out, You get nothing special at UND.

Or learning in a glass cockpit is preparing you for the future.

Right. cause we all go into airlines once we graduate... :rotfl:

im willing to say that 90% of airplanes that the average joe can rent at a local FBO will be a 6pack.

What are we preparing for? the UND bubble?

If you learn on a 6pack, the transition into glass will be relatively easy, however, i can't say the same going the other way...

 

[mrflier]

Wow, this board is full of people who hate UND. For the record, I loved it. The training was great. The cost was half of an Embry-Riddle/other private school. The reputation of the school is good. I never had a problem with any groundschool I attended (corporate, freight, or airline).

Oh, and I got into flying because it's what I wanted to do for a living, not because I wanted to make $100,000 right out of college. I didn't want to work in an office/assembly plant/construction etc. Nothing wrong with that, it just wasn't for me. I like looking out my window and seeing things from 35,000 feet.

No matter what the haters say, I am very happy I went to UND. I consider the education I received world-class. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[WIFlyBoy]

Wow, this board is full of people who hate UND. For the record, I loved it. The training was great. The cost was half of an Embry-Riddle/other private school. The reputation of the school is good. I never had a problem with any groundschool I attended (corporate, freight, or airline).

No matter what the haters say, I am very happy I went to UND. I consider the education I received world-class. That's my opinion anyway.

I wouldn't say everyone hates UND. Like you I am happy I went to UND and I think i got a good education and have enjoyed it thus far. However there are always going to be things that people do/do not like about any flight school(and thats just what this thread has gotten to). I think you will find that even though there are people on these boards that hate UND, I bet most will tell you they got a good education and they like parts of UND. If they don't, then why the hell did they stick around.

To the reputation thing, its very true. I've talked to many people in the industry and all have nothing but good things to say about UND and really speak highly of the kids that graduate from UND's flight program.

Anyways, you just have to do what you want and feel your way through, just like anything else in life.

 

[mokulele]

Keep in mind: when it comes time for you to compete for that job, those alumni guys who bash UND here will be the first to flaunt their UND collegiate flight education... after they've told you to go to your local FBO, of course.

:clap:

 

[ORDFlyer85]

I happen to like UND for the most part. My only gripe is with the SOME of the Flight Ops people who seem to be out of touch. There is clearly a divide between the Odegard Academic People and the people who run the Airport ... there's very little oversight for communication between the two. Other than that I think UND has been pretty good to me, learned a lot and at least I can say I lived in North Dakota ... HHAHA :rotfl:

 

[TXaviator]

Keep in mind: when it comes time for you to compete for that job, those alumni guys who bash UND here will be the first to flaunt their UND collegiate flight education... after they've told you to go to your local FBO, of course.

:clap:

really? pretty sure i didnt flaunt it at all. i listed my bachelors degree and thats about it. i didnt say OMG LOOK I GOT MAH FLYING LICENSE FROM UNDDDDDD!!!!11


clap clap to you. in fact, everyone at my company has a negative opinion of both ERAU, UND, and puppymill pilot factories in general.

 

[BIGRIG]

really? pretty sure i didnt flaunt it at all. i listed my bachelors degree and thats about it. i didnt say OMG LOOK I GOT MAH FLYING LICENSE FROM UNDDDDDD!!!!11


clap clap to you. in fact, everyone at my company has a negative opinion of both ERAU, UND, and puppymill pilot factories in general.

They must have a chip on their shoulders just like you Dr. TXaviator. Do you really think they would have hired you with all the other more qualified applicants out there if they really hated UND grads? I dont think so. Unless of course you showed them your MD in aviation. Everywhere I have worked, they have been very impressed with UND grads.

 

[oktex88]

I'm sure there are several Aviation employeers that read these forums and a search in google about UND will lead you to this forum.

When the job market for pilots does get better you guys complaining about UND are shooting yourself in the foot by degrading the reputaion of your degree. Now, I don't know any reasonable person that would want to do this...unless they were disgruntled after they graduated that the pilot job market is just not what it was just a few short years ago.

 

[stuckingfk]

really? pretty sure i didnt flaunt it at all. i listed my bachelors degree and thats about it. i didnt say OMG LOOK I GOT MAH FLYING LICENSE FROM UNDDDDDD!!!!11


clap clap to you. in fact, everyone at my company has a negative opinion of both ERAU, UND, and puppymill pilot factories in general.

Thought you didn't have a job.