How does this letter sound?

djh1007

djh1007

Flying Squirrel Trainee
Hey guys, this is a detailed thread, but I appreciate any advice and help given. I have been lurking for years, and trust many of the posters to give accurate responses and provide sound advice.
Background in cliff notes:

  • New CFI 11/1
  • CFI-I practical 12/5
  • Asked to interview after I got my CFI (11/1)
  • Went well, want to hire me, check back in december, not a good time
  • Don't think they're blowing smoke up my butt (detailed story, but I'm fairly certain about this, know the employees well, friends with a few CFIs there, flown there for years, involved in a commecial for them years ago)
Here's the email I sent after my initial interview:
Mr. XX
Chief Flight Instructor
XX Flight Training
XXX

Dear Mr. XXX,

Thank you for taking the time to discuss the Flight Instructor position at XXX with me. After meeting with you and discussing what it takes to be a successful flight instructor, I am further convinced that my background and skills coincide well with your needs.

I really appreciate that you took so much time to acquaint me with the inner workings of the company and talk about things I may not have learned during my ground training. I feel I could learn a great deal from you and would certainly enjoy working with you and everyone else at XXX.

In addition to my qualifications and experience, I will bring excellent work habits and judgment to this position. With the countless demands on your time, I am sure that you require people who can be trusted to carry out their responsibilities with minimal supervision.

I look forward to hearing from you regarding your hiring decision. Again, thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,

David Hall, CFI-A, AGI
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and here was his responce:
David, appreciate you coming by today in chatting with me regarding CFI opportunities with XXX. As we discussed, would like to bring you on the team but need to let some things settle here. Feel free anytime to give me a shout if you want to discuss this more.
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This is a follow up email I'd like to send the Chief CFI today:
Mr. XXX
Chief Flight Instructor
XXX Flight Training

Dear Mr. XXX,

I'd like to once again thank you for meeting with me and discussing XXX's flight instructing needs a few weeks ago.

I understand that the value and usefulness of a 300 hour CFI is not all that high, and as such, I have been working to improve my qualifications so that I may be viewed as an even greater asset to your team.

On 12/5 I have a CFI-I practical scheduled, and hope to complete my IGI as well by years's end.
I would like to propose to you coming on board XXX as a contract instructor. I have spoken with three current employees, and each agreed to send me students if they became too busy one day, or for a checkride prep to have a different set of eyes look things over.

Additionally, I have taken steps to recruit my own students, and have one that would like more information in regards to an intro flight, and one other who has expressed interest in training with me to earn a private pilot certificate in the very near future. As you know, I have created and launched a website to show prospective clients, and from this I have generated interest and positive feedback from the community.



I present to you the following benefits of hiring me as a contract CFI:

  • I provide my own students, not competing with current employees
  • I can increase the school's revenue by providing BFRs, instruction, and possibly IPCs in the near future
  • I am familiar with XXX's operation, personnel, and aircraft
  • I will provide my own business cards, and will not require a XXX issued uniform
  • I will bring increased flexibility and visibility to the XXX team
Thank you for your consideration.

I look forward to hearing from you regarding your decision,
Sincerely,

David Hall, CFI-A, AGI
(336) 202-0761
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This sounds like a WHOLE LOT of TMI being put on a public forum that can be Google'd right this very moment. Aviation is itty bitty, and there's a better than great chance that someone here knows everyone involved.
 
My first impression is you sound desperate. I'm not saying you should or shouldn't be desperate, I know it's frustrating to want that first flying job... but to me, it presents a negative image.

I'd definitely follow up after you have your CFII because then you have something more to add. I would not say "I'm planning to do ____" but I've read a lot of resumes where people say "they are 'working' on such and such" and it's usually BS and when I read it I immediately think, "well then go do it and tell me when it's done".

If you truly are desperate and have no other options to pursue after you let him know you have the II and he still isn't ready to hire you, then as a last resort, I'd say you're interested in contracting. Problem is, unless you're a good salesman and have serious networking skills with upper-middle class people, you're not going to bring many students in on your own.

If I'm reading the dates right, this has all happened in less than 30 days? Patience.
 
Wait until after you pass your CFII. That way you actually have something to talk about. Also, unless this is your absolute dream place to work and no other place will do, I'd hope that in the mean time you have been busting your butt trying to get hired at other places as well.
 
Thanks for the responses. I did not realize that I came off as desperate. I am an ambitious person, I dislike waiting for things to come to me, I do what I can to make the things that I want happen.

As far as bringing in my own students, I am fortunate to have grown up in an upper middle class bubble. My one prospective students is an ex NFL football player.

I coach a NIFA event that I teach like a Private pilot ground school at a community college next door to the flight school, I have many contacts and people interested in training with me. The current problem is that I do not have access to an airplane.
 
BobDDuck said:
Wait until after you pass your CFII. That way you actually have something to talk about. Also, unless this is your absolute dream place to work and no other place will do, I'd hope that in the mean time you have been busting your butt trying to get hired at other places as well.
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The only other school nearby has CFI's sign a no compete contract... I am still in college and I can't really go anywhere else. Additionally, I learned to fly at the school and and friends with several of the current CFIs. I like the school, and do want to work there.

I've also joined the FAAST (safety team) as a representative and will be speaking at meetings asap. My references include FAA employees, DPEs, and individuals who chair a community college's flight program.

What else can I do to get started?
 
Check local laws, but non-compete clauses are generally BS unless there's a specific damage to the employer. You generally cannot prevent someone from working for a living in their own profession.
 
Dear Mr. XXXX

Following up to your e-mail dated 11/1/12, I just wanted to check on the status of your hiring process. I am still very much interested in the CFI position we discussed last month and just wanted to update you on the status of my CFI-I. Next Wednesday, 12/5, I am scheduled for an instrument-instructor practical exam. Please let me know if there is any additional information you need or whether you can update me on a timeline for a potential decision.
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Is this any better?

I'm young and don't have w lot of real world experience. However, I have been an ice hockey official for 7 years, and out of necessity, have developed a sense of self confidence and belief in my self as abilities. I try not to come off as arrogant, but my previous life experience has required me to become sure of myself f I am to do my job well.

Additionally, the majority of what I have learned has been from textbooks and school. I have a management minor, and have tried to apply what I have learned from lectures and textbooks.
 
djh1007 I'd also agree that the second follow up letter is probably a bit too much. The chief only said follow up if there were other things you needed to discuss and that he was just waiting for something to settle down within the company.

WAIT FOR IT TO SETTLE DOWN :)

Give it 2 weeks. If you don't hear anything, then follow up. By then you will also have your CFII which can be the catalyst for checking back in with updated credentials.
 
I'd agree with the sentiment here. Two weeks seems like a long time now, but after you've been instructing for a few years, it won't even be memorable. Taking charge and trying to make things happen can be a good thing, but sometimes the right move is to do nothing.
 
I have done a lot of initial hiring and interviewing. Your follow-up letter was excellent and should suffice. Your second one however, comes across as needy and slightly annoying if it is sent that soon after the first. Judging by the response you received, he has it mind that you will be brought on when the time is right. Don't press the issue or you might just talk yourself out of a job. As others have said, check back once you complete your CFII in December. Good luck!
 
I'm with everyone else, wait till you have your CFII and even your IGI as well before contacting them again. In my eyes contacting every 2-3 weeks is enough to keep your name out there but not so much as to come across as desperate.

And if the other school wants you to sign a no compete contract. Thats someone I would NOT want to work for...
 
I'm just in college and have no ratings past my ppl, so you don't need to listen to what I have to say, take it as what it is.

I'm with Everyone else, It sounds like you got a clear answer from the guy, he wants to hire you but can't at the moment. What else do you want from him, responding to his answer with anything other than a "thank you for your time" or "I appreciate it" seems very pushy and I cant see that helping your job prospects with said flight school.

(just my 2 cents)
 
Dunno if you've had someone tell you this...

FAA Inspectors, FAAST Rep involvement, in select cases letters from DPE's (or just putting their names into the Reference Box) can destroy your outlook to near zero and may have lasting negative effects on your pilot job search. For the rest, copy, paste, print and frame Stomps tip.

One followup, avoid sounding as if they are the only outfit in town and try not to be overly friendly, as it (can) come across as insincere/ desperate. Instructing isn't a career for most green horns, and I don't know a single flight school owner who can't tell the difference between someone looking to build time, and someone who will be around for a while.

I understand that the value and usefulness of a 300 hour CFI is not all that high, and as such, I have been working to improve my qualifications so that I may be viewed as an even greater asset to your team.
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Never, ever, ever, ever (did I say EVER?) point to your lack of experience as something that requires an apology (old sales rule attached) and never thank someone for their "valuable" time. Their time is just as valuable as yours. I have discarded good applicants in sales and management positions for doing this. Your goal isn't to be viewed as a potential asset to their school, but to be one, which incidentally requires them to do business with you or hire you. With increased skill and qualifications, your price should go up and your horizon should widen.

Your hours are low, but a good outfit will be able to "test" you by other means than the size of your logbook.

I usually cringe when I see flight schools hiring 255 hour CFI/CFII wonders, because they truly have a very limited pool of experience from which to draw upon for teaching. I'd rather hire a CFI and see them solo 15 students, finish up a couple of hard core Privates and doing BFR's, than someone with 1.3 in actual conditions teaching people how to fly instruments... but that's just me...

Good Luck!
 
Cessna414JJB said:
Dunno if you've had someone tell you this...

FAA Inspectors, FAAST Rep involvement, in select cases letters from DPE's (or just putting their names into the Reference Box) can destroy your outlook to near zero and may have lasting negative effects on your pilot job search. For the rest, copy, paste, print and frame Stomps tip.
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Would you (or anyone else) elaborate on this?

Cessna414JJB said:
Never, ever, ever, ever (did I say EVER?) point to your lack of experience as something that requires an apology (old sales rule attached) and never thank someone for their "valuable" time. Their time is just as valuable as yours. I have discarded good applicants in sales and management positions for doing this. Your goal isn't to be viewed as a potential asset to their school, but to be one, which incidentally requires them to do business with you or hire you. With increased skill and qualifications, your price should go up and your horizon should widen.
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Makes perfect sense, thanks. This is why I posted this here, to learn from people who have been here in real life. My knowledge is limited mainly to book knowledge, I've yet to see much about how the "real world" operates.
 
+1 on Stomp16's post #12. After starting a flight school, I received lots of letters from prospective CFIs. After the initial interview I expected a thank-you note (you've done) to which I'd send a brief reply ("Mr. XX" has done). His reply didn't mention YOU as the reason for the delay, it mentioned THEM ("need to let some things settle here"). That could be BS or the truth, but either way you aren't in control of the process at this time.

So at this time - finish your CFI-I and IGI, refer your intro flight candidate to the school (goodwill to the school, and it begins the process with the student), accept that not much instructional flying will happen between now and Christmas anyway, and don't sign a non-compete agreement.

Good luck!
 
djh1007 said:
Would you (or anyone else) elaborate on this?
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Lets say a friend of a friend once got told by a friend that the word "FAA" on resume's may cause certain spasms in certain body parts, which have been shown to magically catapult certain CV's right smack into the trash can. A fresh banana peel or half cup of black coffee has been observed sliding off the desk (magic), to assure that the CV in the trash can was destroyed to such extent, that inviting the applicant for an interview would have been embarrassing. And no, I wasn't the hiring manager - it wasn't my resume.

You don't want someone with half a brain thinking that your belief in currency training and further education (by any sources available, even the FAA) presents a risk of hiring someone who could turn a shady operation in. IOW, unless the flight school is actively and honestly participating in FAAST, I'd wait until hired. I have two DPE's on my reference list, including several ATP's and other professional refs from other lives, but I am not actively looking for anything nor desperate to fly. Your ref list should be tailored to the outfit. I would strongly suggest to get a copy of "The Savvy Flight Instructor" as well.

Makes perfect sense, thanks. This is why I posted this here, to learn from people who have been here in real life. My knowledge is limited mainly to book knowledge, I've yet to see much about how the "real world" operates.
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Please forgive me for slapping you for putting yourself down, again. You're a CFI. No Baby Credit. You're not new to this. You're part of a rare breed, half broke, stretched and tested to the limits, a weapon or mass education (even if saying "Lets look this up together!"). You're asking honest questions and you're getting honest answers from people who hopefully see themselves as peers and equals, even if they have more "experience". ;) I'd dare most of the guys have been where you are, so relax - you're in good company.
 
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