How do you like Skywest?!
- Thread starter CAVOK
- Start date
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
CRQ or CLD as we use it at SKYW for the identifier for Carlsbad is a co-domicile for SAN. Which means if you want CRQ then you have to be based in SAN and bid lines that fly out of CRQ. SAN is a pretty senior base. In PSP my buddy is upgrading next month, and another ex-united dude transfering to SAN so I'll be 8 out of 28 FO's. In SAN I'd be #15 out of 20 FO's. So it's pretty senior. I'd pretty much hold a crappy line.
[ QUOTE ]
Seat lock does not apply to upgrade. If you meet the 2500 TT which includes 1000 121 crew-time and ATP written, you may upgrade.
C. The Company reserves the right to relieve a Pilot from a freeze if operational
requirements determine that need."
[/ QUOTE ]
Reeeeeally?! I wonder why on the Standing Bid list, under my upgrade bid, my "freeze end date" is listed as 12 months from the date of my transition? I'm glad to hear the seat-lock doesn't apply to upgrades (since that's not the impression I had before) but I wonder if the people awarding the bids are aware of this fact!? Any ideas as to why this is shown on the standing bid list, Chris?
As to the original subject of this thread, I'm a SLC CRJ FO. I've been with the company just under 2 years, I transitioned from the EMB-120 to the jet at my 1 year mark about a month before my sim partner (same seniority -1) took the Brasilia upgrade.
Financially, it's been just about a wash since I've held good paying lines as an FO and he's been mostly on reserve. This month I'm flying mostly local trips and after taking 2 vacation days I will have had 17 days off!
(this is atypical for my schedule, I bid just under the 1/2 mark in SLC) If you want to be able to afford a house and have a wife and baby at home (in SLC at least), while enjoying a reasonably good quality of life, transitioning to jet FO makes sense. Add to that the opportunity to gain a reasonable comfort level in the airplane before upgrading and for me it was a good move.
True, it's possible to get PIC time faster if you stay in the Bro. but you will likely be on reserve a very long time, and if you sacrifice your quality of life in order to further your career it is easy to find yourself missing out on the most important things in life.
I spent the first 4 years of my flying career with advancement as my top priority. I worked my heiney off to be the best FO I could be, while looking forward to my 18-month Jet upgrade (pre 9/11 Coex). Then 9/11 happened and after 2 years of furlough and going through two companies, I've learned the importance of family and the extremely fickle nature of this industry.
SkyWest is a great company. In my opinion though, the failure to pay newhires is an abomination. It embarasses me that our company is unwilling to invest in it's (potentially) greatest asset. The pay agreement that Chris spoke of at the end of '04 has come nowhere near fruition 7 months later and in fact, the final offer from the company was a 1.2% raise for the CRJ pilots (no chance of splitting the 50 and 70-seat rates) and nothing for the Brasilia. After 4-years at the same rates, the "18-month" 70-seat TA, and a company setting record profits, many pilots consider 1.2% a major slap in the face. Personally, my health insurance costs have risen more than the 1.2% they are offering. (for me it ends up being about $35 a paycheck raise)To be fair, management has decided to include the pilots in a new bonus program, but you only qualify after you've been with the company longer than two years. So if they want to call that a pay raise, it doesn't apply to the roughly 30% of our pilots who've been hired in the last 2 years (who didn't get paid in training!)
These are just two of many issues that SkyWest pilots need to face in the current environment. Please don't assume that I am bad-mouthing the company. SkyWest is a great place to work and I am happy to have a job there. The pay is reasonably good (for the 50-seat jet) and the quality of life can be pretty good if you don't commute, the training department is top-notch and the aircraft are well-maintained. We have a management team that is focused on long-term growth and not just quick personal gain (that's what happens when you keep a CEO for 30 years!) We are in a great position financially and have continued growth plans through spring of '06. For those of you that want to come here, it's a great opportunity. I would just like you to understand some of the real-world concerns of many members of the pilot group. I'll never forget one of the first Captains I flew with on the jet. He had been on reserve in SLC for 2 years as a captain. He was miserable. The whole trip, all he could talk about was how he and his fiance were starting a doggy day-care and he couldn't wait to quit SkyWest so he could go do that instead. I don't think I could do it (though there are times when I understand it), but I wish him well.
Good luck to all the SkyWest hopefuls. We need more eager, energetic, proactive optimists.
Seat lock does not apply to upgrade. If you meet the 2500 TT which includes 1000 121 crew-time and ATP written, you may upgrade.
C. The Company reserves the right to relieve a Pilot from a freeze if operational
requirements determine that need."
[/ QUOTE ]
Reeeeeally?! I wonder why on the Standing Bid list, under my upgrade bid, my "freeze end date" is listed as 12 months from the date of my transition? I'm glad to hear the seat-lock doesn't apply to upgrades (since that's not the impression I had before) but I wonder if the people awarding the bids are aware of this fact!? Any ideas as to why this is shown on the standing bid list, Chris?
As to the original subject of this thread, I'm a SLC CRJ FO. I've been with the company just under 2 years, I transitioned from the EMB-120 to the jet at my 1 year mark about a month before my sim partner (same seniority -1) took the Brasilia upgrade.
Financially, it's been just about a wash since I've held good paying lines as an FO and he's been mostly on reserve. This month I'm flying mostly local trips and after taking 2 vacation days I will have had 17 days off!
True, it's possible to get PIC time faster if you stay in the Bro. but you will likely be on reserve a very long time, and if you sacrifice your quality of life in order to further your career it is easy to find yourself missing out on the most important things in life.
I spent the first 4 years of my flying career with advancement as my top priority. I worked my heiney off to be the best FO I could be, while looking forward to my 18-month Jet upgrade (pre 9/11 Coex). Then 9/11 happened and after 2 years of furlough and going through two companies, I've learned the importance of family and the extremely fickle nature of this industry.
SkyWest is a great company. In my opinion though, the failure to pay newhires is an abomination. It embarasses me that our company is unwilling to invest in it's (potentially) greatest asset. The pay agreement that Chris spoke of at the end of '04 has come nowhere near fruition 7 months later and in fact, the final offer from the company was a 1.2% raise for the CRJ pilots (no chance of splitting the 50 and 70-seat rates) and nothing for the Brasilia. After 4-years at the same rates, the "18-month" 70-seat TA, and a company setting record profits, many pilots consider 1.2% a major slap in the face. Personally, my health insurance costs have risen more than the 1.2% they are offering. (for me it ends up being about $35 a paycheck raise)To be fair, management has decided to include the pilots in a new bonus program, but you only qualify after you've been with the company longer than two years. So if they want to call that a pay raise, it doesn't apply to the roughly 30% of our pilots who've been hired in the last 2 years (who didn't get paid in training!)
These are just two of many issues that SkyWest pilots need to face in the current environment. Please don't assume that I am bad-mouthing the company. SkyWest is a great place to work and I am happy to have a job there. The pay is reasonably good (for the 50-seat jet) and the quality of life can be pretty good if you don't commute, the training department is top-notch and the aircraft are well-maintained. We have a management team that is focused on long-term growth and not just quick personal gain (that's what happens when you keep a CEO for 30 years!) We are in a great position financially and have continued growth plans through spring of '06. For those of you that want to come here, it's a great opportunity. I would just like you to understand some of the real-world concerns of many members of the pilot group. I'll never forget one of the first Captains I flew with on the jet. He had been on reserve in SLC for 2 years as a captain. He was miserable. The whole trip, all he could talk about was how he and his fiance were starting a doggy day-care and he couldn't wait to quit SkyWest so he could go do that instead. I don't think I could do it (though there are times when I understand it), but I wish him well.
Good luck to all the SkyWest hopefuls. We need more eager, energetic, proactive optimists.
Cheechako
Well-Known Member
Good post indeed.
The reason you're back on seat lock is because of your transition to the RJ. The relief on the seat lock only applies to your first year in the first aircraft you were assigned. Does that make sense? I don't understand why that relief is written in when the company can do that at their discretion anyway... there must have been an issue with it at some point in the past so they felt the need to write it in.
Bottom line: you're still seat locked!
The reason you're back on seat lock is because of your transition to the RJ. The relief on the seat lock only applies to your first year in the first aircraft you were assigned. Does that make sense? I don't understand why that relief is written in when the company can do that at their discretion anyway... there must have been an issue with it at some point in the past so they felt the need to write it in.
Bottom line: you're still seat locked!
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
I could understand if you had a family to tend to it would be tough to take the upgrade. Your gonna be gone a lot. However, if your single, live near the base, its not that bad. We've got some lines for reserve captains that have weekends off. Most likely your gonna be off another day in there where they won't call you. Not that it can be a planned day off, but if you live close to home, your somewhat able to relax. I agree that the QOL will be much better on transtion, however lately I've been thinking about how long it would take me to hold a decent line as a captain. I'd be waiting waaaay to long for that to happen. I don't know-kinda on the fence here.
mrivc211,
I'm not trying to talk you into doing what I did. I just wanted to explain my reasoning. It is a very personal decision. The company is so dynamic right now that planning based on holding a line, or a particular kind of schedule is very tough. I've seen many Captains do that only to be pushed back onto reserve by senior people moving around. You're absolutely right, though, if you're single, and live in your base reserve shouldn't be half bad.
SkyWChris, I'm sorry to hear that. So to make sure I understand you correctly, you're saying a person hired into the jet initially has no seat-lock for the upgrade while a person who transitions to Jet FO from Bro FO has the standard 12 month seat-lock. Is that right? Thanks for the info.
I'm not trying to talk you into doing what I did. I just wanted to explain my reasoning. It is a very personal decision. The company is so dynamic right now that planning based on holding a line, or a particular kind of schedule is very tough. I've seen many Captains do that only to be pushed back onto reserve by senior people moving around. You're absolutely right, though, if you're single, and live in your base reserve shouldn't be half bad.
SkyWChris, I'm sorry to hear that. So to make sure I understand you correctly, you're saying a person hired into the jet initially has no seat-lock for the upgrade while a person who transitions to Jet FO from Bro FO has the standard 12 month seat-lock. Is that right? Thanks for the info.
little_cricket
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
You're absolutely right, though, if you're single, and live in your base reserve shouldn't be half bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not bad most days/months... but I sure miss those three day trips.
[ QUOTE ]
SkyWChris, I'm sorry to hear that. So to make sure I understand you correctly, you're saying a person hired into the jet initially has no seat-lock for the upgrade while a person who transitions to Jet FO from Bro FO has the standard 12 month seat-lock. Is that right? Thanks for the info.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep
You're absolutely right, though, if you're single, and live in your base reserve shouldn't be half bad.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not bad most days/months... but I sure miss those three day trips.
[ QUOTE ]
SkyWChris, I'm sorry to hear that. So to make sure I understand you correctly, you're saying a person hired into the jet initially has no seat-lock for the upgrade while a person who transitions to Jet FO from Bro FO has the standard 12 month seat-lock. Is that right? Thanks for the info.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep
Re: EMB DEN seniority
Bluto how long till you upgrade to Captain on the RJ.When I worked at the SLC airport there was a Skywest pilot talking to a guy who just started working on his ratings.If you don't know the ecomomy and pay sucks here.The guy explained pay and said yeah first year pay is only $19K but the second year you can upgrade to the right seat of the jet and make $30K!!! I just about fell over in laughter. As long as your happy and can feed your family.
Bluto how long till you upgrade to Captain on the RJ.When I worked at the SLC airport there was a Skywest pilot talking to a guy who just started working on his ratings.If you don't know the ecomomy and pay sucks here.The guy explained pay and said yeah first year pay is only $19K but the second year you can upgrade to the right seat of the jet and make $30K!!! I just about fell over in laughter. As long as your happy and can feed your family.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
Re: EMB DEN seniority
Let me give an example of something I considered today.
Our new PBS (preferential Bidding System) has been in testing for years now, and has been in practice bid for the last two months at our base. It will go live, meaning it will be for real, in Aug for the sept schedule. It has some great features. It essentially lets you build your own line. Scheduling will have a set of pairings or lines that need to be flown out of our domicile for that month and we have to bid on those lines based on seniority. The difference being from before is that now, the lines are not pre-made. We pick and choose, or cut and paste if you will. The most senior people, obviously getting what they want.
When looking at the lines, I noticed a local line(which means leave in the morning, back in the same day) that pays a total credit of 8:23 hours. And a block(or flight time) of 7:03hours. (we get paid block or credit(the greater of the two). Now according to my calculations(max hours block on the EMB = 120 horus/ CRJ = 100 hours) you could choose this line a max of 17 days for the month of August and get paid a credit time of 142.8 hours! (Keep in mind, not all senior people want what you want) If you were a second year FO on the EMB, your hourly rate would be $27/hour. At 142.8 hours credit time, thats $3855 gross. With per diem, its about $4300. Not bad. You would still have 14 days off for the month. And since the locals only exist Monday thru Friday that would mean weekends off too.
Seniority is everything! Block time would approx be 119.85 horus!
Let me give an example of something I considered today.
Our new PBS (preferential Bidding System) has been in testing for years now, and has been in practice bid for the last two months at our base. It will go live, meaning it will be for real, in Aug for the sept schedule. It has some great features. It essentially lets you build your own line. Scheduling will have a set of pairings or lines that need to be flown out of our domicile for that month and we have to bid on those lines based on seniority. The difference being from before is that now, the lines are not pre-made. We pick and choose, or cut and paste if you will. The most senior people, obviously getting what they want.
When looking at the lines, I noticed a local line(which means leave in the morning, back in the same day) that pays a total credit of 8:23 hours. And a block(or flight time) of 7:03hours. (we get paid block or credit(the greater of the two). Now according to my calculations(max hours block on the EMB = 120 horus/ CRJ = 100 hours) you could choose this line a max of 17 days for the month of August and get paid a credit time of 142.8 hours! (Keep in mind, not all senior people want what you want) If you were a second year FO on the EMB, your hourly rate would be $27/hour. At 142.8 hours credit time, thats $3855 gross. With per diem, its about $4300. Not bad. You would still have 14 days off for the month. And since the locals only exist Monday thru Friday that would mean weekends off too.
Seniority is everything! Block time would approx be 119.85 horus!
Lee D
Well-Known Member
Re: EMB DEN seniority
"The guy explained pay and said yeah first year pay is only $19K but the second year you can upgrade to the right seat of the jet and make $30K!!! I just about fell over in laughter. As long as your happy and can feed your family. "
Most 2nd year RJ F/O's I know do much better than 30K a year. (Unless they sit reserve & rarely fly.)
"The guy explained pay and said yeah first year pay is only $19K but the second year you can upgrade to the right seat of the jet and make $30K!!! I just about fell over in laughter. As long as your happy and can feed your family. "
Most 2nd year RJ F/O's I know do much better than 30K a year. (Unless they sit reserve & rarely fly.)
Re: EMB DEN seniority
[ QUOTE ]
Bluto how long till you upgrade to Captain on the RJ.
[/ QUOTE ] Hopefully toward the end of this year. I'm planning on DEN since SLC is so senior I'd probably have to wait another year to get it.
As for the second part, I agree that SLC is a tough place to get a decent job (at least outside of aviation). I have a buddy with a business degree who spent about 2 years as a finish carpenter while working nights as a manager at auto zone to feed his wife and baby. Part of the problem as I see it is that housing is relatively inexpensive and many people feel strong ties to the area/extended family. So as a result, there's a lot of competition for jobs that don't pay much..
We're not planning on staying in SLC forever, though it definitely has it's nice aspects. I love the mountains and the outdoor activities.
[ QUOTE ]
Bluto how long till you upgrade to Captain on the RJ.
[/ QUOTE ] Hopefully toward the end of this year. I'm planning on DEN since SLC is so senior I'd probably have to wait another year to get it.
As for the second part, I agree that SLC is a tough place to get a decent job (at least outside of aviation). I have a buddy with a business degree who spent about 2 years as a finish carpenter while working nights as a manager at auto zone to feed his wife and baby. Part of the problem as I see it is that housing is relatively inexpensive and many people feel strong ties to the area/extended family. So as a result, there's a lot of competition for jobs that don't pay much..
We're not planning on staying in SLC forever, though it definitely has it's nice aspects. I love the mountains and the outdoor activities.
