How Do You Lean Your Mixtures?

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The old radial engines had a supercharger on the back of the engine and equal length intake pipes that did a good job of mixing the fuel/air and delivering it evenly to the cylinders, making LOP easy and safe.

Yes, but this still is not recommended procedure for all radial engines. And even then it is generally accepted that LOP operations will result in having to overhaul sooner. Which isn't a big deal for an airline, but when I operated round motors it was generally regarded as a not real good idea.


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When I flew freight in the Convair (R-2800 radial engines that make 2400 horsepower at takeoff), LOP for cruise was standard, as it has been for many decades. Same thing at other companies who operate similar equipment. We had a torque gauge (or BMEP in some planes) that we could use to watch the power output on an engine...we would lean to peak torque, then continue leaning down a fixed amount. Interestingly, some big radial airplanes (like the ones I flew) don't even have an EGT gauge - once the power curves are known, a fixed torque drop is used to lean. For takeoff and climb, full "auto rich" is always used, but the pressure carburetor is fairly complex and it does some compensating that a small updraft carb doesn't do.

In small planes without an engine monitor, I cruise with a fairly rich mixture to cruise cuz it's impossible to tell where all the cylinders are individually operating as far as EGT/CHT. When I have had an engine monitor, it's sometimes surprising to see how different they all are ("flying in loose formation" as Deakin would say).

Deakin sells a book by Pratt and Whitney called "The Aircraft Engine and its Operation" (it's no longer published, so you can buy a copy from him or you can find one on ebay if you look long enough). Even though it seems to be written with heavy radials in mind, the basic info and the diagrams are OUTSTANDING. Also, John Deakin's articles on props, mixture and throttle operation are OUTSTANDING too, regardless of what you think about LOP or Gamijectors. For me, they clarified many mysteries and myths about engine operation.

BTW, I went thru John Deakin's CAF C-131 ground school class, and I can tell you that he's a class act!
 
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When I flew freight in the Convair (R-2800 radial engines that make 2400 horsepower at takeoff), LOP for cruise was standard, as it has been for many decades. Same thing at other companies who operate similar equipment.

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I know there are still R-2800's being operated, but it's much more common to see P&W R-985's and R-1340's being used. I've never operated an R-2800 so I'll bow to your experience. But as noted, I've owned and operated these engines (P&W Wasps) for years, and LOP is not recommended procedure for these engines by myself or anyone I know.
 
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know there are still R-2800's being operated, but it's much more common to see P&W R-985's and R-1340's being used. I've never operated an R-2800 so I'll bow to your experience. But as noted, I've owned and operated these engines (P&W Wasps) for years, and LOP is not recommended procedure for these engines by myself or anyone I know

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Yeah, there aren't many 2800s working nowadays, but lots of 985s and 1340s. I can't speak for these engines at all....other than I wish that I had some experience with them.
 
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If you have high RPM, are not the pistons moving up/down faster than at a lower setting? Does this not imply that the combustion cycle (intake, compression, power, exhaust) occurs faster than at low RPM? At high RPM, assuming the ignition timing is fixed and all else is equal (mixture, MP), the point where the peak pressure pulse (PPP) will occur should be later, correct? (like retarding the timing) This will lead to cooling.

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I have been gone for a few days, and I think Deakin already answered this for you, but here goes... Yes, at high RPM if the ignition timing is fixed, the PPP will occur later, leading to lower pressures. This happens because the engine is turning faster. The 'speed of combustion' or how long it takes the flame front to travel throughout the cylinder, remains fairly constant. (I don't want to confuse things too much, but in reality, with a faster spinning engine, the speed of combustion is slightly increased. This has to do with 'turbulence' within the cylinder. The faster the air enters the cylinder, the more it 'swirls' around. In general combustion will occur faster in these conditions, because the flame front will be 'blown' around within the cylinder. Kind of like how wind helps spread a forest fire. Modern car engines are intentionally designed to make use of this to guarantee more complete burning for lower emissions. High rpm racing engines with redlines that can exceed 20,000 rpm also rely on this principle.)

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I understand your point, but if I'm not mistaken, don't "shower of sparks" ignitions advance timing for engine startup? I'm pretty sure that's correct and that advancement remains in effect as long as the starter switch is engaged.

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Yes, and as others have noted, so does the impulse coupling. This is done to reduce 'kick back'. If the timing is not retarded, the engine may try to start and turn in the wrong direction. (At very low RPM the PPP will occur before TDC and the rotating parts will not have enough inertia to keep turning in the correct direction.)

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The LASAR ignition system adjusts the timing to optimize it for all power settings. It makes a noticable difference too, one of our planes has it, quite nice.

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Yes, from what they say, the fuel savings will pay for the installation of the system if the airplane is flown often. This is also coming on the FADEC engines. These will be computer controlled, like the engines on a car. Sensors will adjust the spark timing and mixture. This will make it possible to do without the red knob all together. We will be seeing engines with a single 'power lever' that will take care of the throttle, rpm and mixture, just like turbine aircraft.

It is kind of funny that the DC-3 had automatic mixture controls that could be set to 'auto-rich' and 'auto-lean', but we are getting all excited about this on GA aircraft 70 years later. Some of the radials like the R2800 also had 2 settings for the ignition timing, for takeoff and cruise...
 
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It is kind of funny that the DC-3 had automatic mixture controls that could be set to 'auto-rich' and 'auto-lean', but we are getting all excited about this on GA aircraft 70 years later. Some of the radials like the R2800 also had 2 settings for the ignition timing, for takeoff and cruise...

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As for the auto-lean and auto-rich on the DC-3 1830, well, it's not what they've got today. They operated via a bellows and it's not real accurate. Auto-rich is okay, but there are much better ways to lean than auto-lean.
 
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