How do I get out of a flat spin??
- Thread starter njdem82
- Start date
fish314
Well-Known Member
How about forward stick/yoke and anti-spin rudder?
Even if the spin were flat and the horizontal stab/elevator were not really acting as an airfoil anymore, forward stick would cause the elevator to move down. This should cause the horizontal stab/elevator together to act as a cup or parachute in an airstream coming upwards from the bottom of the plane (I am imagining a perfectly flat spin here, where the airplane is somehow near zero pitch, has zero forward motion, and is basically just rotating and moving straight down). That should lower the nose some, and help break the stall. Of course, anti-spin rudder should counteract the yaw. Between the two, that should eliminate the spin, provided the controls are effective enough.
The T-37 spin recovery procedure used an "abrupt" full stick forward maneuver and full anti-spin rudder to recover from spins. The idea was the same as the above, but the abruptness was designed to give the most violent nose down motion possible in a situation where the controls were less effective. You would start controls neutral, note the direction of the spin, apply full aft stick (to slow the rotation rate of the spin and to give the ensuing forward stick/elevator input the most range to travel). Then you would apply full anti-spin rudder, and one turn later slam the stick from the back stop to the forward stop and hold it there until the airplane came out of the spin. If that didn't work, you would go back to the aft stop, wait for the spin rate to slow, and then try it again. The T-37 was not designed like most FAA/civil planes, though. It did not come out of the spin by itself with the controls neutral.
Even if the spin were flat and the horizontal stab/elevator were not really acting as an airfoil anymore, forward stick would cause the elevator to move down. This should cause the horizontal stab/elevator together to act as a cup or parachute in an airstream coming upwards from the bottom of the plane (I am imagining a perfectly flat spin here, where the airplane is somehow near zero pitch, has zero forward motion, and is basically just rotating and moving straight down). That should lower the nose some, and help break the stall. Of course, anti-spin rudder should counteract the yaw. Between the two, that should eliminate the spin, provided the controls are effective enough.
The T-37 spin recovery procedure used an "abrupt" full stick forward maneuver and full anti-spin rudder to recover from spins. The idea was the same as the above, but the abruptness was designed to give the most violent nose down motion possible in a situation where the controls were less effective. You would start controls neutral, note the direction of the spin, apply full aft stick (to slow the rotation rate of the spin and to give the ensuing forward stick/elevator input the most range to travel). Then you would apply full anti-spin rudder, and one turn later slam the stick from the back stop to the forward stop and hold it there until the airplane came out of the spin. If that didn't work, you would go back to the aft stop, wait for the spin rate to slow, and then try it again. The T-37 was not designed like most FAA/civil planes, though. It did not come out of the spin by itself with the controls neutral.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I just start crying and shrivel up in a ball and hope for the best. I'm still here.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
A true flat spin is not possible in civilian airplanes unless you load the C/G well aft of the approved range.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I've heard of the same thing in a tramahawk. The pilot telling the fish tale though was something of a spinster.
Orange Anchor
New Member
That recovery procedure did not work on this one. And that is the reason for the strake, or so I am told.
(what I did not know until some recent reading and it may be just lore.. but when the Tweet was introduced, it performed an airshow quite similar to that being done by the T-birds and Blues. Reportedly there was some consideration to using the Tweet for the -birds.But I would want to have some Thunderbird historian verify that. It was a fun airplane to fly and a very good trainer as defined by, "Easy to fly but not easy to fly good."
And watch your head on the way out. Goose found out the hard way.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
Flat Spins are possible in civilian airplanes. If you get into one (provided you're loaded in range)... the very first thing you should do it pull the power... chances are the power is what's causing the flat-nature of the spin.
The "forward" stick is entirely dependent on which airplane it is - not advised for a newer pilot in a Pitts of something of that nature (i.e. cross-over spin).
In normal recip airplanes. The nose will drop once the power is out, usually you can just forcefully neutralize the controls and wait for airspeed. In most recip aircraft, the progress is from a flat spin to a 'normal' spin, flat spins are usually slower - and the transition to a 'normal' spin makes the rotations considerably faster.
If you're in a flat spin (and you're loaded normally) in a normal recip, chances are you are doing something to get it or keep it in a flat spin.... so stop doing whatever it is (i.e. pull the power, neutralize the controls) - take out the main sources of yaw.. and it'll will usually recover.
The "forward" stick is entirely dependent on which airplane it is - not advised for a newer pilot in a Pitts of something of that nature (i.e. cross-over spin).
In normal recip airplanes. The nose will drop once the power is out, usually you can just forcefully neutralize the controls and wait for airspeed. In most recip aircraft, the progress is from a flat spin to a 'normal' spin, flat spins are usually slower - and the transition to a 'normal' spin makes the rotations considerably faster.
If you're in a flat spin (and you're loaded normally) in a normal recip, chances are you are doing something to get it or keep it in a flat spin.... so stop doing whatever it is (i.e. pull the power, neutralize the controls) - take out the main sources of yaw.. and it'll will usually recover.
Ajax
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I've never been in one, but I was told that you get out of one in the exact opposite way you you got into it. My old prof once got into an inverted flat spin and tried everything...he was just about to jump out and the plane stabilized itself.
The first thing I would do would be to pull power, opposite rudder, elevator down and if that didn't get something working I would do whatever I could to throw off the CG. I'd try dropping the gear if I could.
NASA did some interesting research regarding the flatness of a spin as it relates to the AoA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(flight)#Modes
The first thing I would do would be to pull power, opposite rudder, elevator down and if that didn't get something working I would do whatever I could to throw off the CG. I'd try dropping the gear if I could.
NASA did some interesting research regarding the flatness of a spin as it relates to the AoA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(flight)#Modes
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
Someone I know got into a flat-ish spin in a tomahawk, recovery wasn't happening... They ended up unbuckling their seatbelt and jumping up/down towards forward and it shifted the CG and they recovered. Yay for relatively light airplanes.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Heard the same thing from a guy that now flies for Jetblue. Nice enough guy he just wanted to spin everything he could after completing his private. Didn't do that much afterward.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
It really depends on the airplane...I've done plenty of flat and inverted flat...if you mash the opposite rudder and forward stick you will go from a flat to an inverted flat in the other direction in say a Pitts.
Ajax
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Good point, a better way to have worded it would be to neutralize the stick...then try to push it forward if no dice. I'd be fighting it all the way to the ground trying everything I could
Flying Biker
Well-Known Member
Odd that this subject came up. A friend of mine was killed today in what all appears to be was a flat spin. Of course it is very primarily, but the plane is almost intact with the exception of it being flattened when it hit the ground. The investigators are saying that there was no scaring on the ground and there was only one piece that was not with the plane and it sat approximately 20 feet from the rest of the wreckage. The tail is bent to the left which makes me think that the plane was in a clockwise rotation when it hit the ground.
Dan, You will be missed!!!
You can see a decent picture here of the plane.
http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/101317294.html?storySection=photo
