Orange Anchor
New Member
Well, the jpg was there. ???
How do FE's log flight time?
- Thread starter JordanD
- Start date
The L-1049 that crashed on takeoff from Falcon Field, AZ (FFZ) in March 1975 suffered 4 engine flameout with all engines damaged internally, after running out of ADI fluid; suspected due to mismanagement by the FE. Plane crashed after attempting to circle back to Runway 22, but crashed short on a downwind in the northeast corner of what is now Higley Rd and Loop 202. Small pieces of the plane's fuselage and engines still exist in that dirt field to this day.
Photos of the accident sequence taken a bystander, showing the Connie trailing smoke as it attempts to circle back to the field, then it's ultimate demise with 6 fatal.: (photographer unk)
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HeyEng
Well-Known Member
Not only to mention the Flying Tiger plane that ditched in '62 with 28 fatalities. The blame was put on the FE although there was some "discussion" about what may have "actually" happened. Interesting side note: The engineer was an Eastern guy that was on strike @ the time and was working with FTL (with quite a few other EAL FEs). Flying Tigers and Eastern had different procedures, so this was also cited as one of the contributing factors.
Second side note: Thankfully (for me anyway), my Grandfather was supposed to fly that particular flight but my Great-grandmother had just died, so he called off the trip. Had he been on it, chances are I would have never met the greatest man I have ever met! Then again, perhaps he may have not made the same choices the on-duty FE made and those 28 people could have survived. Odd how things work, huh?
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19620923-0
Second side note: Thankfully (for me anyway), my Grandfather was supposed to fly that particular flight but my Great-grandmother had just died, so he called off the trip. Had he been on it, chances are I would have never met the greatest man I have ever met! Then again, perhaps he may have not made the same choices the on-duty FE made and those 28 people could have survived. Odd how things work, huh?
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19620923-0
mjg407
Well-Known Member
I thought they need to log it because the FAA has a strict 6 month hour requirements (50 hours every six months) or they need a new checkride, which isn't a big deal in the 121 world, but is when you don't need a FE for every flight...
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
Doug,
Aren't FE's only SO's if they have their pilot ratings otherwise they are PFE's...
Yes mjg407, the FE's have a currency requirements they have to meet or its back in the box.
§ 121.453 Flight engineer qualifications.
(a) No certificate holder may use any person nor may any person serve as a flight engineer on an airplane unless, within the preceding 6 calendar months, he has had at least 50 hours of flight time as a flight engineer on that type airplane or the certificate holder or the Administrator has checked him on that type airplane and determined that he is familiar and competent with all essential current information and operating procedures.
(b) A flight check given in accordance with §121.425(a)(2) satisfies the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section.
Aren't FE's only SO's if they have their pilot ratings otherwise they are PFE's...
Yes mjg407, the FE's have a currency requirements they have to meet or its back in the box.
§ 121.453 Flight engineer qualifications.
(a) No certificate holder may use any person nor may any person serve as a flight engineer on an airplane unless, within the preceding 6 calendar months, he has had at least 50 hours of flight time as a flight engineer on that type airplane or the certificate holder or the Administrator has checked him on that type airplane and determined that he is familiar and competent with all essential current information and operating procedures.
(b) A flight check given in accordance with §121.425(a)(2) satisfies the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section.
PA-44typed
Well-Known Member
“big U, little u”………
On a serious note, FE time can be counted 3 to 1 towards the time requirements for an ATP. I logged it in a separate Column my logbook. Sitting sideways is like deadheading form one preflight to another. But you do get busy when the Sh#$t starts flying.
On a serious note, FE time can be counted 3 to 1 towards the time requirements for an ATP. I logged it in a separate Column my logbook. Sitting sideways is like deadheading form one preflight to another. But you do get busy when the Sh#$t starts flying.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
Check Essential!
A couple of PFEs I once met while jumpseating back in my civvie days, were some dirty dudes.......probably knew their way in and around the back alleys of Olangapo, Manila, Saigon and Bangkok. But these dudes could practically build the aircraft's systems....
"Only 20 dollah?!?! You numbah 10 cheap bastard GI!!!"
You know who else are weird? Navigators.
Back when KC-135s were still using them as regular members of the crew, I'm flying along on one taking a ride from Hickam to March. Am sitting in the jumpseat behind the pilot and next to the backseat of the Nav. Nav gets up to go back in the cabin for something. He returns and is standing facing forward in the aisle behind his seat and behind the co-pilot, and next to me. He says something to the co, who turns around in time to see the Nav standing there with the bottom zipper of his flightsuit zipped up partway, with his junk (all inclusive) sticking out of the front of it. Co is speechless while Nav just innocently exclaims "what? What? there a problem?"
BTW, if two mods say "ballwalking" on JC, would a user issue the infraction?IS there even an infraction?
Ballllllllllll walking.
Ballllllllllll walking.
Lemme look across the desk... Nope, nothing! I guess it's ok! And our grammar was proper so we may not hear a peep out of SteveC!
Orange Anchor
New Member
I jumpseated Concorde twice. The FE was the one who had a huge workload. He said, "She's a good old girl but when she's naughty, she's very naughty!" He had something like 10-15 memory items each with about 5 steps. Busy guy when the airplane got naughty.
mjg407
Well-Known Member
There are some classy ones in the Orion. The rudder trim is located on the center panel between both pilots, right in front of the FE. One FE would mess with new copilots during night ops by laying his "junk" on the rudder trim."Only 20 dollah?!?! You numbah 10 cheap bastard GI!!!"
You know who else are weird? Navigators.
Back when KC-135s were still using them as regular members of the crew, I'm flying along on one taking a ride from Hickam to March. Am sitting in the jumpseat behind the pilot and next to the backseat of the Nav. Nav gets up to go back in the cabin for something. He returns and is standing facing forward in the aisle behind his seat and behind the co-pilot, and next to me. He says something to the co, who turns around in time to see the Nav standing there with the bottom zipper of his flightsuit zipped up partway, with his junk (all inclusive) sticking out of the front of it. Co is speechless while Nav just innocently exclaims "what? What? there a problem?"
Had another who would "set condition five" wearing only his NATOPS required gear (steel toed boots, helmet, and SV2). He was known as "Nick the Richard" and not because he was an ass. Once one of the spooks had fallen asleep right after takeoff, and old Nick decided to jump up and down in front of the young lad until he woke up.