how can you possibly live on a pilot's starting salary??????

jtrain609 said:
I've got nothing to complain about dude, I'm getting paid more than a second year FO at ExpressJet to fly a twin around. As far as I'm concerned, giving the new kids the straight dope is about as constructive as you can get.
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At what point will you not be able to keep up with the XJT payscale flying that twin around? :) :sarcasm:

Don't hurt me!
 
wheelsup said:
It goes with the times. If DAL, UAL, etc. were hiring like gangbusters people wouldn't be complaining about the low pay, because the golden carrot would be in full-dangle mode.

With the music stopped, those left standing piss and moan. It's life. I'm sure it goes on in other industries just as much as ours :).
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It does. Anytime I've talke to someone about the problems in the airline industry right now, I am always met with the response, "that is going on everywhere".

In corporate America, for example, wages are down 3-4%, and people are typically working 50-70 hours per week. 3-4% is nothing compared to pay cuts pilots have seen, but most major pilots are making more than these "Corporate Americans", anyway, so it averages out.
 
As far as I'm concerned, giving the new kids the straight dope is about as constructive as you can get.
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This is very important! I feel that everyone needs to get the "Being a pilot is mercedes and the beach house" talk. This is a tough profession and anyone that isn't prepared is going to get a shock. I was talking to a kid in one of my classes the other day that was becoming a pilot and he was talking about how much demand there is and how he was so exited to get out of school and get his new 30k car. I didn't want to be mean but I had to tell him the truth! He wouldn't believe me, he is 2 years in and is going to get a shock when he gets out.
 
It does. Anytime I've talke to someone about the problems in the airline industry right now, I am always met with the response, "that is going on everywhere
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This is true. My dad is an architect and he took an almost 50% paycut so he didn't have to let some of his workers go. (He is so close to retirement it dosn't hurt him to bad) To bad the delta execs wont do that ;)
 
jtrain609 said:
I've got nothing to complain about dude, I'm getting paid more than a second year FO at ExpressJet to fly a twin around. As far as I'm concerned, giving the new kids the straight dope is about as constructive as you can get.
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Thats good you make more than a 2nd yr ExpressJet FO. Where do you work flying the twin? My arguement would be while you might be defeating the ExpressJet FO in pay, probably not by much, in 2 years and maybe even 1 year that ExpressJet FO will be an ExpressJet Captain and most likely double what you make flying the twin.

Spbeyond said:
This is very important! I feel that everyone needs to get the "Being a pilot is mercedes and the beach house" talk. This is a tough profession and anyone that isn't prepared is going to get a shock. I was talking to a kid in one of my classes the other day that was becoming a pilot and he was talking about how much demand there is and how he was so exited to get out of school and get his new 30k car. I didn't want to be mean but I had to tell him the truth! He wouldn't believe me, he is 2 years in and is going to get a shock when he gets out.
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Just tell him it will be 3-5years after graduation til he can get that 30k car, or in other worlds, when he gets to Captain.
 
John, you're getting paid more than 2nd year XJT, b/c if you got paid the same as they did where you're based you'd be living in a box under a bridge. I don't think they expect IPs to commute, so they HAVE to pay more to get people to do it. Airlines can always play the "we allow you to commute" card. BTW, do they let you fly that Chieftain to FL if you wanna go on vacation? I mean, I get to hop MY plane for free to go there. :) Oh, and I only have to pay $5 to take my kid to the doctor. See folks, it's more than just cash money, dollar dollar bill ya'll.

What 777 keeps forgetting is that there are few majors hiring right now. He's seeing it as "the regionals are just a stepping stone." If that were completely true, every 5 year CA that wanted out would be out. Instead, we've got a bottleneck at the regional CA level since only a select few majors are hiring a select few applicants. If there WERE a pilot shortage, then guys wouldn't have to look overseas for potentially better flying jobs.

Now, as far as the pilots at the airlines making the contracts instead of the guys wanted to work for lower pay, it's not that simple. Ya see, management saunters into the negotiations with this stack of resumes from guys with low time with the knowledge that they'll do the guy across the table's job for half the pay. Kinda takes the power away from the guys flying for the airline when management knows they can replace them for peanuts. Ask a tech help guy why he didn't fight for higher wages when jobs were getting shipped to India....
 
"This is a tough profession and anyone that isn't prepared is going to get a shock."

This is a very true statement regardless whether you think 30K a year is good money or not. For soooo many reasons it's not all about the money. The problem I see is the big academy/big university marketing that doesn't really tell it like it is.

I think this site, while somewhat negative, is brutally honest, and does a good job of countering the marketing BS.

If you can't handle the truth, go to anet.
 
Matt, John made the jump from Skymates about three weeks ago. He's out in CA now, which is why he makes so much bank. Homie has to live somewhere. :)
 
John is right: there are other options beside RJ's. Hell, there's other options besides the majors! We all tend to get a little too fixated on the "Transcon Triple-Seven" fantasy and the best way to get there. I was no exception. We all have different situations and different needs though, so why the expectation that we should all be clamoring for the same job? The bottom line is, there's jobs that work for some people, and some that work for others. There is much, much more to this industry than the major airlines, and there's good arguments to be made that some of those jobs are betterthan the majors.

I chose the regional I chose because it was the best fit, for me, at the time. I could have held out and instructed till that Lear-cargo place I was thinking about called, but ExpressJet was hiring me right then, and right there. It's a fantastic place to work; I couldn't have imagined turning that down to fly freight. On the oher hand, I have friends that went the freight route, and they seem happy with thier decision. Still other friends went to other regionals, and one buddy'a mine went to the fracs. He loves it, and I'm happy for him.

I don't intend to make a career out of ExpressJet by any means. My purpose there is Turbine PIC. Meantime, I have nice benefits and a good schedule. For me, it's a balance of upgrade time and QOL, and I think it's a good one. At the same time, I'm cognizant of the fact that that can all change in a heartbeat, and when it does I'll take a carefull look at the playing field and make the best decision at the time, with all the information I can use to make that decision. That's all we can really do anyway. If the moon and stars align properly, and I do get that TPIC on or about the time I'm thinking I will, then great. I can take it and go to Southwest, or put in over at UPS (I met a guy...) or do something else, something exciting and impractical. I'm not saying what though.

So if you find yourself tunnel-visioned career-wise, try taking the paper towel tubes away from your eyes and having a look around. You may be pleasantly surprised. I was.
 
CapnJim said:
I can take it and go to Southwest, or put in over at UPS (I met a guy...) or do something else, something exciting and impractical. I'm not saying what though.
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Yeah, I hear running drugs to Mexico and Canada can be pretty lucrative. The health benefits might not be as good as XJT, though. :)
 
kellwolf said:
Yeah, I hear running drugs to Mexico and Canada can be pretty lucrative. The health benefits might not be as good as XJT, though. :)
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It's not so bad.....there are good bennies, actually.

Looking for guys with some low-level mountain time, NVG time a plus.

Apply here.
 
It doesn't really matter where I work. To the guys that I worked with that know where I'm at, know that I was getting to the point of moving on be it where I'm at now or into an RJ. To be honest, it didn't matter with me. And with that I don't want to turn this into an RJ bashing thread because ya'll know that's not how I feel.

But I do feel, and I think most of you agree, that the wages for first year FO's flying RJ's are crap. I was willing to do it, but it's crap by all accounts.
 
John, you made the right decision. But then, so did I.
Best of luck!! Get that damn TPIC and move out!!
 
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