how can you possibly live on a pilot's starting salary??????

[tonyw]

"Hitting"...Tony, are you in sales?

Sales tends to be the exception on the salary averages...many sales people make more than their CEO. I am not one of them.

Yup. But in sales, you know exactly what you're worth to the company. And salespeople are not shy about telling their employers just how much money they brought in and that's why they deserve more.

 

[killbilly]

Yup. But in sales, you know exactly what you're worth to the company. And salespeople are not shy about telling their employers just how much money they brought in and that's why they deserve more.

Yeah - that's a part of the job I like. Sales is one of the few career paths which is really merit-based.

That said, I'm gonna be short this year...not as short as I'd feared but short nonetheless. Which is okay because sales are down for the entire company. Might just go back to Sales Engineering.

 

[kellwolf]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Under "my system", there IS a better paying job to go to. You do it by moving from the right seat to the left seat, and by moving from a smaller airframe to a larger one. But I disagree that a pilot who has been in that seat for 10 years is somehow "more valuable" than someone who has been in that seat for 5 years.

Experience only make a difference in getting hired. Once you are hired, (and successfully complete training) you are as "qualified" as you need to be, at least from the company, the FAA, and the insurance company's standpoint.

See my previous post where I tied "your system" which states experience has no bearing on producitvity directly to an example where experience can increase productivity.......

 

[MikeD]

Finally, I know there is never a shortage of pilots but the there is going to be shortage of "qualified pilots" as thousands of pilots at the majors approach Age 60. Regional captains will be hired rapidly and at the same time the regionals will be scrambling for pilots! This point has not even been reached yet and as of now Mesa a dying for pilots lol.

Kit D, is that you?

 

[notawannabee]

nice thread. However, there may be one point that has been overlooked in this particular thread. FURLOUGH ! It is nearly inevitable. I think pilots should be making more, and I also agree that comparing only salary..not responsibility and skill ( please bear with me )...pilots are in the medium of U.S. standards of pay AFTER 2-3 years of service. My problem is this...do your time and get cut...your back at the bottom. This is a risk that may not be worth the pie in the sky 80k or whatever salary you are reaching for.

If you are making 40k after a few years and go back down to the 20s, them you must average your old pay for with your new pay. Like someone noted before, the key is preparation...always live as if you could be furloughed at any time. Oh, and you may have to move your family or at least be based at another location. I know, none of this is unknown to most of you.

If this industry was reasonably stable, I would have no problem spending my years of service at a regional to reach a better QOL. However, with the events of the world today...who knows whats next. Just think what would have happened to the industry if the attempted bombing of the aircraft not long ago would have happened. The situation is that fragile.

ok, getting off subject. peace.

 

[allison]

Check out this site. Some of the payscales are a couple years old, but it's still pretty interesting:

http://willflyforfood.cc/Payscales/PayScales.htm

 

[Spbeyond]

How do you live? Have a loaded father

Anyway if the starting salary scared you away then Im not sure you are into aviaton enough for this to be the field for you. I mean money is important but if your in it for the money and your afraid of eating ramen for awhile then this might not be the field for you. Just some thoughts.

 

[tonyw]

Anyway if the starting salary scared you away then Im not sure you are into aviaton enough for this to be the field for you.

So you're cool with getting paid wages that make Wal-Mart look like a generous employer? And you say do it for the love of the profession?

Hell, man, I'm sure hookers enjoy sex, but they want to get paid, too.

 

[Spbeyond]

You only get one life and you have got to take the bitter with the sweet. Ugh... ive turned into my father. Anyway Im just saying that money is important but if its between making alot of money and not enjoying what you are doing and going thru a few (or a couple more) years of barely making enough to survive but doing what you want to do. I would take the 2nd anyday. But that is me. I think there is hard time no matter what you do. I dont want to lecture or nothing but my dad had Tons of debt when he got out of school and it was a bad market just like this for pilots and he wasn't making much. But now he owns his own Architecture firm that employs 100+ people. When I tell him how hard it is for pilots all he says is they can get thru it. I think almost no matter what you do there is going to be hard times. (But pilots are getting boned right now.)

 

[ChrisH]

nice thread. However, there may be one point that has been overlooked in this particular thread. FURLOUGH ! It is nearly inevitable. I think pilots should be making more, and I also agree that comparing only salary..not responsibility and skill ( please bear with me )...pilots are in the medium of U.S. standards of pay AFTER 2-3 years of service. My problem is this...do your time and get cut...your back at the bottom. This is a risk that may not be worth the pie in the sky 80k or whatever salary you are reaching for.

If you are making 40k after a few years and go back down to the 20s, them you must average your old pay for with your new pay. Like someone noted before, the key is preparation...always live as if you could be furloughed at any time. Oh, and you may have to move your family or at least be based at another location. I know, none of this is unknown to most of you.

If this industry was reasonably stable, I would have no problem spending my years of service at a regional to reach a better QOL. However, with the events of the world today...who knows whats next. Just think what would have happened to the industry if the attempted bombing of the aircraft not long ago would have happened. The situation is that fragile.

ok, getting off subject. peace.

You acknowledged something that I think is the first time I've seen a pilot on these message boards, and others acknowledge. That is the fact that salaries made by pilots are in the medium of U.S. standards. Like I've posted before, the average salary of a college educated person is $70K in this country. Other than first year pay, FO's, for that matter, are within the medium of salaries seen by someone brand new to a career. I have friends who have graduated college in recent years, and none received a starting salary over $40K. I actually had a conversation the other day with my Dad. He is in administration at a hospital. He manages 4 to 5 departments. He does the hiring, and salary negotiations. I asked him what typical salaries people are starting, with medical degrees, I'll add, and he said it is rare that someone received over $40K, and he has started numerous below $30K. I'll also add, that he, himself, makes $80K, and only recently began making that, after 22 years at this hospital.

If someone wants to argue regional captain pay at $80K being underpaid due to the skills, and knowledge, etc., a pilot has, I'll agree 100%. But to imply, as some do, that $80K is somehow poverty, and compare it to being a hooker, working at Wal-Mart, or being a grocery store cashier, is absurd, and that I will not agree with. Not when I know people making less than that, living VERY good lives. Not to mention that $70-$80K is the 'starting', so to speak, pay for a typical regional captain, being as though all the regional guys I know, made that as soon as they upgraded. I know some who have been a captain for several years, and are pulling in $90K+.

 

[surreal1221]

Check out this site. Some of the payscales are a couple years old, but it's still pretty interesting:

http://willflyforfood.cc/Payscales/PayScales.htm

Actually a site that you can visit that doesn't have 2 year old pay scales is APC.

 

[tonyw]

You only get one life and you have got to take the bitter with the sweet. Ugh... ive turned into my father. Anyway Im just saying that money is important but if its between making alot of money and not enjoying what you are doing and going thru a few (or a couple more) years of barely making enough to survive but doing what you want to do.

Okay, let's do the math. First year pay is about $18K, right?

Let's take about 20 percent off for taxes. You're down to less than $15K, but we'll round up to $15K.

That's $1,250 a month.

Around here, that'd would barely pay for a one bedroom apartment, but let's say you live in a place where housing is 50 percent of what you'd pay around here. You are now down to $650.

And that $650 has to pay for food, clothing, gas, and utilities.

Let's say you eat cheap and only spend $100 a month on food. You're down to $550. You have to maintain your clothes, so let's say you're paying $50 a month for laundry and dry cleaning. Now you're down to $500. I pay around $100 a month for gas and I don't drive all that much so let's use that. You're looking at $400.

Oh yeah, if you want to drive, you need insurance. Kiss another $100 goodbye.

So, just paying for the very basics and before we talk about things like car payments and student loans, you are down to $300 to play with and I've used unrealistically LOW costs.

 

[wheelsup]

and I've used unrealistically LOW costs.

But you also used unrealistically low pay.

 

[Spbeyond]

If you hate this all so much why do you do it? Why dont you go do an easy profession where you get a 50k starting wage?

 

[jtrain609]

Because we love what we do and instead of just accepting the status quo a few of us are interested in changing things for the better. But it's hard to do when you have kids that scream, "D00D I'D LOVE TO FLY A CRJ-900 AROUND FOR CESSNA 172 WAGES! JETS ARE ROX0RS!!!!!"

 

[SteveC]

If you hate this all so much why do you do it? Why dont you go do an easy profession where you get a 50k starting wage?

<Point of procedure - it's sometimes difficult to tell who you are responding to unless you use the Quote function.>

 

[Spbeyond]

Because we love what we do and instead of just accepting the status quo a few of us are interested in changing things for the better. But it's hard to do when you have kids that scream, "D00D I'D LOVE TO FLY A CRJ-900 AROUND FOR CESSNA 172 WAGES! JETS ARE ROX0RS!!!!!"

I would love to work for change. I just think it sounds like there are more complaints than constructive talk. It is all so negative. You need a positive attitude to help not just try and scare people away and whine about how tough life is. Not that I am saying that is what anyone in this thread is doing. I just have heard that alot on here. (I am currently living on 11k and going to school so I know it gets really old to not have any money to have fun.) I am sorry about not using the quote. I will try to do better.

I dont want you guys to think I am trying to start an argument or anything but I am just always positive. I just cant stop.

 

[Chris_Ford]

Okay, let's do the math. First year pay is about $18K, right?

Let's take about 20 percent off for taxes. You're down to less than $15K, but we'll round up to $15K.

That's $1,250 a month.

Around here, that'd would barely pay for a one bedroom apartment, but let's say you live in a place where housing is 50 percent of what you'd pay around here. You are now down to $650.

And that $650 has to pay for food, clothing, gas, and utilities.

Let's say you eat cheap and only spend $100 a month on food. You're down to $550. You have to maintain your clothes, so let's say you're paying $50 a month for laundry and dry cleaning. Now you're down to $500. I pay around $100 a month for gas and I don't drive all that much so let's use that. You're looking at $400.

Oh yeah, if you want to drive, you need insurance. Kiss another $100 goodbye.

So, just paying for the very basics and before we talk about things like car payments and student loans, you are down to $300 to play with and I've used unrealistically LOW costs.

My cost of living keeping the status quo (college style living in a studio apartment, 0 roommates, cable TV and internet). My apartment is $450. But if I were able to live with others (6 month lease is hard to find for 1 person in a college town), I could pay as low as $300/mo in rent. But we'll stick with $450.

$450 for rent + $125 for utilities (electricity and internet) = $575/mo
$30/wk for food * 4 = $120/mo (my actual food costs)
$30/mo for cell phone
$100/mo for car insurance
$20/wk for gas (assuming I'd have to drive down to IND a lot [1200 miles/month]) *4 = $80/mo

That totals up to $905. Plus $95 of misc expenses (wash your own dang clothes for $4/week in quarters) and bam, $1000/mo. And I maintain a fairly quality standard of living (aka eating deli cheese, not wrapper cheese. No Ramen, etc).

Yeah, you can't live in NYC without a crashpad, but living in an outskirt of a city can dramatically cut your housing cost, at the expense of a little more drive time

 

[wheelsup]

I would love to work for change. I just think it sounds like there are more complaints than constructive talk. It is all so negative. You need a positive attitude to help not just try and scare people away and whine about how tough life is. Not that I am saying that is what anyone in this thread is doing. I just have heard that alot on here. (I am currently living on 11k and going to school so I know it gets really old to not have any money to have fun.)

It goes with the times. If DAL, UAL, etc. were hiring like gangbusters people wouldn't be complaining about the low pay, because the golden carrot would be in full-dangle mode.

With the music stopped, those left standing piss and moan. It's life. I'm sure it goes on in other industries just as much as ours .

 

[jtrain609]

I would love to work for change. I just think it sounds like there are more complaints than constructive talk. It is all so negative. You need a positive attitude to help not just try and scare people away and whine about how tough life is. Not that I am saying that is what anyone in this thread is doing. I just have heard that alot on here. (I am currently living on 11k and going to school so I know it gets really old to not have any money to have fun.) I am sorry about not using the quote. I will try to do better.

I dont want you guys to think I am trying to start an argument or anything but I am just always positive. I just cant stop.

I've got nothing to complain about dude, I'm getting paid more than a second year FO at ExpressJet to fly a twin around. As far as I'm concerned, giving the new kids the straight dope is about as constructive as you can get.