how can you possibly live on a pilot's starting salary??????

[surreal1221]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Touche'! However, I highly doubt I'd average over 70 posts/month based on complex being here roughly 18 months and having 1261 posts... Although, I can see how this thread might seem to indicate otherwise...

Nevertheless, considering how individuals typing speeds have increased over the years as technology becomes a larger part of our life, I'm pretty sure a good number of us could go through at least 7 or 10 posts a day fairly easily. Much less, 7 or 10 posts an hour, or half hour.

With that being said, the simple agruement of someone's post count indicating how much actual "time" (hours and minutes) they spend on a certain forum is slowly becoming a poor gauge.

 

[fludy12]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Nevertheless, considering how individuals typing speeds have increased over the years as technology becomes a larger part of our life, I'm pretty sure a good number of us could go through at least 7 or 10 posts a day fairly easily. Much less, 7 or 10 posts an hour, or half hour.

With that being said, the simple agruement of someone's post count indicating how much actual "time" (hours and minutes) they spend on a certain forum is slowly becoming a poor gauge.

Duly noted... Ahhh!!! Now I'm a contributor to this theory. :banghead:

 

[skydog]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

You just had a heart attack.

There's "Joe Schmo's Cardiack Shack" and "Lincoln Memorial Hospital".

Your choice?

But here's the trick. Under your system, there ARE no better paying jobs to go to.

Your assignment: Read "Flying the Line" by George Hopkins for a quick refresher.

If I understand your analogy correctly, you are implying that there are better pilots and worse pilots, just like there are better doctors and worse doctors.
That is certainly the case. I am not questioning that. My whole point is that pilots bring a certain amount of value to their company regardless of how many hours are in their logbooks. 250 or 2500, it makes no difference in terms of what that pilot is producing on a given airframe.

Now what does make a difference in their value is their productivity. Airplanes are business tools. They produce Revenue Passenger Miles. A 767 produces about twice as many RPM's as a 737. Yet both of them require two pilots. Therefore, A 767 pilot produces more value for his employer, thus entitling him to better compensation, than a 737 pilot. On the other hand, a 10 year 737 pilot may be a better pilot than a 5 year 737 pilot, but in terms of productivity, they produce the same, therefore they should be paid the same.

Under "my system", there IS a better paying job to go to. You do it by moving from the right seat to the left seat, and by moving from a smaller airframe to a larger one. But I disagree that a pilot who has been in that seat for 10 years is somehow "more valuable" than someone who has been in that seat for 5 years.

Experience only make a difference in getting hired. Once you are hired, (and successfully complete training) you are as "qualified" as you need to be, at least from the company, the FAA, and the insurance company's standpoint.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Also remember that aviation is a small group of people. You never know who might end up across the interview table from you in the future.....

Saying that, I will venture to say that fludy12 is a good person, these forums sometimes brings out the worst in people, including myself.

 

[fludy12]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Also remember that aviation is a small group of people. You never know who might end up across the interview table from you in the future.....

Saying that, I will venture to say that fludy12 is a good person, these forums sometimes brings out the worst in people, including myself.

I'm good enough, smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me!

Ha, ha, but I hear ya. Just to easy to quip on someone in forums like these. No harm, no foul, and no offense taken.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

I'm good enough, smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like me!

Ha, ha, but I hear ya. Just to easy to quip on someone in forums like these. No harm, no foul, and no offense taken.

Cool, now what makes you a better pilot then me????

 

[fludy12]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Cool, now what makes you a better pilot then me????

Um, maybe my highly scintered wit and smoldering good looks?

Worked wonders on the chiquitas back when I was CFI'ing...until they saw the lack of bulge...in my wallet.


Military flight instructing was great, but civilian CFI pay blew hard...and not in the good way. But, I got the CFI/II and later MEI as I needed that for my current job, which was unbeknownst to me at the time. It all worked out in some cosmic end of a way...

 

[SteveC]

Help me out with "scintered". Meaning?

 

[fludy12]

NT, never mind...

 

[fludy12]

Help me out with "scintered". Meaning?

Alternatively, the poy-T oligonucleotides may be immobiliized upon poroussurfaces, e.g., porous silicon, zeolites silica xerogels, scintered particles, or other solid supports.


If ya still have to ask after reading the above...do you really want the full explanation?

Then again, perhaps my adjective went well beyond the scope of this forum and, if so, I completely apologize for my aforementioned scintered remark.

 

[SteveC]

Then again, perhaps my adjective went well beyond the scope of this forum and, if so, I completely apologize for my aforementioned scintered remark.

Scintillating!


irate:

 

[Fly4Pay]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

At what point do we go past the illusion of flying a jet and realize that this is a job after all and that as professionals pilots should be well compensated for their job.
​

Here's the thing--and I say this as both a professional pilot and a business owner... you aren't paid based upon what you think you're worth--you're paid what the market will bear. As long as there are guys out there willing to fly for low pay, there will be low pay.

Yep, it's an important job. And yep, when our skills are needed, they're REEEEEEEEEEALY needed (engine out, in the weather, etc). BUT--if the employer has vacancies that he can fill (safely) at a lower wage, he's going to do it. Simple supply and demand. (And as good as each of us think we are, there's usually someone just as good who will work for less)

The GOOD news is that, if wages/salaries for pilots stay low, lots of these people will decide that, no matter how great the job is, it's just not financially worth it. Then the pool of talent shrinks, and wages will go up again (supply decreases, demand increases).

Won't happen overnight, though. But in the meantime, it IS still a pretty decent way to make a living.

 

[ChrisH]

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

But in the meantime, it IS still a pretty decent way to make a living.

It really is, when you compare an RJ captains salary to what average salaries are in other career fields. An accountant making $80K and an RJ captain making $80K. Who deserves more? I would say the pilot, because he has skills that are necessary for the safe operation of a multi-million dollar aircraft with 50 to 70 lives in the back. But, when you get right down to the numbers game, as far as salary is concerned, it is not a bad living. I'd rather make $80K flying, than sitting in a cubicle all day punching numbers. But I'd rather make more, no doubt.

 

[tonyw]

One point to bring up, however, is that your typical person, outside of aviation, will not make over $80K per year. VERY FEW jobs pay above that, and those that do, require MANY years of experience to reach that level.

Incorrect. I had exactly four years of media experience and I hit that easily when I was selling advertising.

Hell, man, I've got very little experience in my current job and I've got a good shot at hitting more than $80K.

 

[ChrisH]

Incorrect. I had exactly four years of media experience and I hit that easily when I was selling advertising.

Hell, man, I've got very little experience in my current job and I've got a good shot at hitting more than $80K.

Again, I said "typical". Looking at the averages, few careers pay over $80K. It doesn't mean none do. Just like there are pilots making well over $80K, there are people else where, as well, it is just not the norm.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Incorrect. I had exactly four years of media experience and I hit that easily when I was selling advertising.

Hell, man, I've got very little experience in my current job and I've got a good shot at hitting more than $80K.

With OT I know alot of Engineers that can get to $80K with only 2-3yrs experience. With 5-6yrs experience you can get that with a salary.

Tony, did you get another job??

 

[ChrisH]

With OT I know alot of Engineers that can get to $80K with only 2-3yrs experience. With 5-6yrs experience you can get that with a salary.

Tony, did you get another job??

With 5-6 years experience you can earn that as an RJ captain as well. I know guys who upgraded after 2-3 years and made $80K. Engineers are a higher paying job, and they typically do see larger salaries. BUT, I reiterate, I never said that nobody makes over $80K, I said that looking at the averages, not many do.

 

[Trip7]

I dunno bout you guys, but im not planning to stay at the regionals my whole life. The regionals for me is just a stepping stone to get to where I really want to be, a major airline such as Fedex, UPS, Southwest etc. So far I have heard few dicussions about the "major airline pay" and all this "ah we make so little" and "80k is not enough enough for a regional pilot" and "whine" "whine" and "whine" somemore. When I first came on to this site, discussions about pay made me think regional pilots were making 20-40k their whole time there. When I looked at the captain payscales I was shocked to see that the earnings were so high! And with quick upgrade times it makes the situation even better. Most will think otherwise but even the regionals is WELL-PAYING! Unless you go to a company with an American Eagle-like upgrade, which is your fault because hey, you are the one that excepted the job.

If you want to stay at the regionals for life, then shoot for an Air Wisconsin or Skywest, but if you want to get to the next level as quickly as possible time wise, MESA, yes the Walmart of the skies, is the place to be in my opinion. Yes they will fly the crap out of you, but hey thats more time and MONEY for you. Plus you upgrade in 2-3yrs, actually closer to two years now. I think the whining about FO pay is irrelevant when upgrades are so quick at most airlines at the regional level. But then you say the work rules are bad and you fly too much. Ahh, poor baby, you want to go home and rest? You go ahead, I'll take your trip, the 20hrs PIC, and the overtime pay thankyou very much. (I took this quote from my buddy at Mesa!).

I think that Great Lakes is actually the VERY best in terms of building time quickest to get to the majors since you upgrade to captain within a year, but well, most of us know you will also be very low on pocket change your WHOLE time at Great Lakes lol. In fact, some of the discussions on this site makes it seem that EVERY regional airline pays like Great Lakes!:insane:

Finally, I know there is never a shortage of pilots but the there is going to be shortage of "qualified pilots" as thousands of pilots at the majors approach Age 60. Regional captains will be hired rapidly and at the same time the regionals will be scrambling for pilots! This point has not even been reached yet and as of now Mesa a dying for pilots lol.

In conclusion, any other young pilots out there that are reading these posts, do not let some of the negativity bring your hopes down. This is a HIGHLY-PAID and RESPECTED JOB! Not just the major airlines, but the regionals as well! Look past the 20k a year complaints and look at what you will really be paid as a regional captain (50-90k). In most cases, if you have loans they will be paid off before you reach the majors, where your pay gets really sweet. From his experiences in his two years at Mesa and couple months as captain, my friend says there are two types of pilots, the grumpy pilots( you know the ones you meet at the airport and you say you want to be a pilot and they say, go be a doctor or lawyer its not worth it..now thats what I call degradiing the industry) and then there are pilots who actually love their job. So while some will sit at the regionals and whine, b*tch and moan about how terrible their situation at the regional is, I prefer positive thinking because I have bigger goal in mind. Just my two cents.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

Just my two cents.

Sheeeeh...get change!

 

[killbilly]

Incorrect. I had exactly four years of media experience and I hit that easily when I was selling advertising.

Hell, man, I've got very little experience in my current job and I've got a good shot at hitting more than $80K.

"Hitting"...Tony, are you in sales?

Sales tends to be the exception on the salary averages...many sales people make more than their CEO. I am not one of them.