How are hours logged as F/O?

mcooper

New Member
I guess I never thought about it that much, but let's say you're hired at a regional with the the goal of going to the majors. During you're time as an F/O, I am assuming that most of your time is logged as SIC and only the times the Capt. lets you fly can be logged as PIC. Is this correct?

Assuming the above is correct, how do the majors look at that time? In other words, even though you have may have let's say 4000TT and 1500 multi, but maybe 1200 of that multi isn't as PIC, does that count against you?
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
As far as I know you shouldn't be logging any PIC time as an FO, even if you are the "flying pilot" from takeoff to landing. The captain always has the final authority and responsibility for the safety of the flight and therefore is the only one that can long PIC time. The FO logs his/her flying time as SIC time only.

In addition, FO's are sometimes not type rated in the aircraft they fly, further preventing them from logging PIC time.

However I must admit, I could be wrong about some of this since I am not an airline pilot.
 

mcooper

New Member
Ok. So how about the second part of the questions? What are the majors most interested in if you're coming from a regional? TT or Multi?
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
The majors are probably more interested in seeing multi-engine turbine PIC time than anything else. You could have 10,000 hours in cessna 172's and you wouldn't meet their application minimums. Withouth that Multi-Turbine PIC, it's gonna be tough to get an interview IMO. An exception might be single engine turbine time (F-16's, caravans, Pilatus, TBM-700, any others?). You might get by without much multi time if you have a lot of single engine turbine time.

I don't think having a lot of SIC time is going to count against you. However, most airlines specify that you need a certain amount of PIC before you can even apply, so you definitely need to meet that. The more PIC time you have the better, but SIC is definitely not a waste....
 

aloft

New Member
What he said. The clock doesn't start ticking (as far as the majors are concerned) until you're logging multiengine turbine PIC time. Military fighters are generally the exception, single-engine turboprops generally aren't.
 

mcooper

New Member
OK. So would it be correct to say that if you are hired at a regional, your "countdown" to help you get to the majors really doesn't start until you make captain?
 

mcooper

New Member
Jeez! What are you doing up at this hour!?!? If have an exuse. We had a system problem at my company and I was on a conf call.


Oh Hey!! BTW, I was down there in Austin on Aug 10 when that Citation X was there that you took a picture of. Sweet
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
Just going over some geography material for school tomorrow. Yeah, those citation X's are nice. I'm surprised I only have 1 picture of a X in my portfolio....we get at least 2 or 3 per day on average. Netjets flies the crap out of those things.
 

junkstream

Well-Known Member
Ah . . . No.

First here's what/how I log as an FO.

1--Total Time
2--Multi-Engine Land
3--Turbine
4--XC
5--SIC
6--All Night
7--Only the actual instrument that I was the sole manipulator

To say that the clock does not start until you're PIC is grossly inaccurate. There is no denying that PIC time is WAY more valuable than SIC, however if PIC was ALL the majors wanted. They would only ask for that time on the applications.

I really only know of two majors that have specefic PIC requirements: SWA and ATA. Not sure about Airtran or JBlue.
In fact, I believe Doug was hired with minimal PIC turbine and it was also in aicraft less than 20,000 MATOW. Granted, that was a far different market. However, we just had an FO leave for Frontier with a big 0 in the PIC turbine column.

I know of SEVERAL furloughed TWA guys that are having a hard time finding a job because they have 0 turbine PIC. In fact at least two of them have far less total PIC than I. I'm a bottom-feeder regional FO and all my PIC came from solo and CFI days. So, they were hired at TWA from the right seat of a regional with only 121 SIC time. Again, they were hired around 1997-2001--a far different time.

I think we'll see similar hiring in about eight years. Not at CAL, AA, UAL, NWA, or Delta. But at Frontier, Alaska, JBlue, SWA, Airtran, and ATA. All majors none-the-less.

Again, PIC is golden. If you're at a regional you should take the first upgrade on something that burns Jet A with more than one engine. I'm senior enough to hold EMB-145 FO, but I stay in the right seat of the 41 because if I went to the EMB right now, I'd be seat-locked for 365 days post IOE. I hope to upgrade on the 41 before then. If I went to the EMB, I could miss an upgrade if the industry tanks again.

Oh, SWA accepts Caraven time towards their PIC turbine requirement.

Hope this helps--good luck.

Hope this helps.
 

Alchemy

Well-Known Member
I didn't realize guys could still crack the majors with 0 PIC turbine. I know Doug was capt on the B1900 for a while, so I figure he had about 500 hours PIC in that type before delta took him on. Thanks for clarifying junkstream.
 

Cheechako

Well-Known Member
I used to be that way: able to get a major airline job with little or no PIC. But these days, no way. PIC is king with thousands of pilots applying to the same few jobs.
 

IrishSheepdog

Sitting in the median
SWA has a PIC turbine requirement of 1000 hours. ATA has no PIC requirement. Only 2500 TTL, 500 ME Turbine. AirTran has a 500 PIC Jet requirement. Ouch.

Right now as an FO, like junkstream said, I'm logging Total Time, Multi-engine time, Turbine Time, 121 Scheduled Time (back of Jepp pro pilot log, 121 time is looked at by the majors), Cross-Country time, SIC time, Night; and when I'm sole manipulator, I log all the landings, approaches, and actual instrument time.

I have heard of a few captains from our company getting on with ATA with ~300 PIC turbine. They had the 2500 hrs and 500 hrs requirements, and managed to get in with minimal PIC. Not the norm, but it happens... post 9/11.

I've learned there is no rhyme or reason to hiring anymore. Time plays a part, but also what kind of time you have, what airplane you have flown, what company you worked for, and who you know also play a big part. Just enjoy the ride!
 

junkstream

Well-Known Member
It is almost unheard of to get in anywhere without the turbine PIC, but lightning strikes once in a great while and someone makes it.

Most guys that have recently upgraded scramble for the 1000 turbine PIC and then relax a little. It seems to be the magic number.
 
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