House Committee Probes Aviation Medical "Fraud"

Doug Taylor said:
There are people flying that could benefit from psychiatric medication, but don't because they'd lose their medical.

"Pilots that sought psychological help flying over my head? Don't hurt me!"
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I met my first truly nuts guy today. He was an FA though, on my Eagle flight. Absolutely certifiable. Over the course of the 2 hour flight, he engaged just about every row of the jungle jet in an accounting of his life, to include the brain surgery he had, which has caused him to write everything down because he forgets it after 5 minutes. I believe this because he told the same brain surgery story over and over, going off onto the same tangents about the furniture in his house, his love life, and his parents finances. After 10-15 minutes of a completely one sided conversation, he moved on to the next victim. I feigned a narcoleptic episode everytime he came by.

He was absolutely flaming gay. (DISCLAIMER-I have no probs with gay, just the flaming part tends to get a bit on my personal nerves, and this was the most extreme I have ever seen, including those fashion guys on E!). When giving out connection gates, he kept spurting out "Just ask me and I'll tell you where you can go!" with this same fiendish giggle. Just really gave me the shivers.

You just gotta wonder what the HR person at Eagle was preoccupied with the day they hired this guy("Short term memory due to brain surgery? Hey no problem man!"). I feel sorry for the pilots that have to L/O with him.

OK.....Rant over....return to normal programming.
 
flyover said:
I'll change my vote if the drug companies are willing to endorse a comprehensive study on the safety of anti-depressants in adults in general and compare it to the professional pilot population and how they are getting by without the benefits of these drugs.

I'm betting they won't like that at all and in fact the companies do no want any part of the scrutiny their drugs would come under in return for the relatively small market that the pro pilot population represents.

Nothing like just one psychotic episode in a cockpit linked to an anti-depressant to really hurt your sales.
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So what happens if some pilot gets depressed, decides to end it all and takes a plane full of people with him, and he's NOT on meds?
 
Speaking of weird FAs....

There was one that came in (Pinnacle) that was a little weird. Conversation as follows with my coworkers.

Me: That girl was a little weird with her shaved head...
Chris: Dude, that was a guy
me: couldn't be
chris: 100% gay guy that will be a female reaaal soon.
me: I guess with he purse, earings, and painted fingernails, I jumped to conclusions....

Sure was something special.
 
kellwolf said:
So what happens if some pilot gets depressed, decides to end it all and takes a plane full of people with him, and he's NOT on meds?
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That's what I am thinking. I know someone who is very close to me who should/used to be in antidepressants. He came off of them so he wouldn't lose his job. Can I just say it scares me that he flies people's families around. I must say he tries different alternatives to medications but he should definitely be on something. Off of the meds he is so freaking fragile. He cries at the drop of a hat. It's down right scary sometimes. I much prefer the him on antidepressants.
 
flyover said:
I'll change my vote if the drug companies are willing to endorse a comprehensive study on the safety of anti-depressants in adults in general and compare it to the professional pilot population and how they are getting by without the benefits of these drugs.

I'm betting they won't like that at all and in fact the companies do no want any part of the scrutiny their drugs would come under in return for the relatively small market that the pro pilot population represents.

Nothing like just one psychotic episode in a cockpit linked to an anti-depressant to really hurt your sales.
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Oh I forgot, somebody here doesn't believe mental illnesses exist! My bad.

You've the guy that tells family members to just "snap out of it" or to, "stop vying for attention" with their mental illnesses aren't ya.
 
Doug Taylor said:
harp-seal-baby.jpg
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Mmmm . . . baby Harp Seal. The tenderness of veal, with the natural saltiness of fish!
 
LoadMasterC141 said:
I met my first truly nuts guy today. He was an FA though, on my Eagle flight. Absolutely certifiable. Over the course of the 2 hour flight, he engaged just about every row of the jungle jet in an accounting of his life, to include the brain surgery he had, which has caused him to write everything down because he forgets it after 5 minutes. I believe this because he told the same brain surgery story over and over, going off onto the same tangents about the furniture in his house, his love life, and his parents finances ... He was absolutely flaming gay ... When giving out connection gates, he kept spurting out "Just ask me and I'll tell you where you can go!" with this same fiendish giggle
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Oh man! That's an SNL skit just WAITING to happen. :D
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Mmmm . . . baby Harp Seal. The tenderness of veal, with the natural saltiness of fish!
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I prefer mine freshly clubbed, sliced on the bias and served over a bed of jasmine rice and edamame! YUM! ;)

Throw a little harp seal au jus on it and a glass of chianti classico and that's a fine meal.
 
Since the depression thing was brought up. You can go to a mental health provider for "counciling" and if there is no diagnosis of "depression" you need not tell the FAA (ie report it on your medical paperwork).
 
kellwolf said:
So what happens if some pilot gets depressed, decides to end it all and takes a plane full of people with him, and he's NOT on meds?
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Yeah, that's the problem. We don't have much of a historical record of that happening at all. On the other hand we do have quite a historical record of really bizarre and psychotic behavior associated with anti-depressants. Which should be of no surprise, these problems are known side-effects.

I believe there was a news story just a couple months ago about an Australian pilot on anti-depressants that had a psychotic break in the cockpit. And take about any of the more bizarre and inexplicable passenger incidents over the years and they've involved anti-depressants. Remember the guy that a FAM shot in south Florida. I believe his wife was running behind him yelling something like "Don't hurt him, he needs his meds!"

If you think this issue hasn't been broached by the FAA, pharmaceuticals and ALPA, think again. If these drugs ever make it into the cockpit it will be a big deal.

And I know you guys think that I am being insensitive to pilots with problems. Not the case. I think the prohibition on these drugs for pilots has been more of a hidden blessing than we realize.

But is is just MHO.
 
"On March 20, 2007 a former air ambulance service pilot was found guilty by a Federal jury in Sacramento, California, on charges of making false statements on his application for an airman's medical certificate and failing to report Social Security disability overpayments. Michael Pennington, of Susanville, California, was a former chief pilot and maintenance director for Mountain Life Flight, an air ambulance service based in Susanville. Testimony during the trial disclosed that Pennington falsified his application for his annual airman's medical certificate between 2001 and 2004 by failing to indicate that he was receiving disability benefits for debilitating medical conditions. Pennington also failed to inform the Social Security Administration (SSA) that he was receiving substantial income, resulting in his receiving $36,000 of excess Social Security Disability payments from 2003 to 2005. No sentencing date has been set."
 
flyover said:
I believe there was a news story just a couple months ago about an Australian pilot on anti-depressants that had a psychotic break in the cockpit. And take about any of the more bizarre and inexplicable passenger incidents over the years and they've involved anti-depressants. Remember the guy that a FAM shot in south Florida. I believe his wife was running behind him yelling something like "Don't hurt him, he needs his meds!"
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So, was it a side effect of his meds? Was he getting the right dosage? Was he on the right meds? How do you know the media didn't just latch on to the fact that he was on anti-depressants to begin with? They love to do that, even to people that AREN'T pilots.

Mental health is a tough thing to diagnosis and treat. I think we've had the conversation before, but here we go again. How many people close to you have depression/bipolar? I'm not talking about people you've "heard of" or read about. People you know and interact with on a daily basis. The trick isn't the meds, the trick is finding the right medication at the right dosage. It's not a magic solution, and it doesn't fix things off the bat. After the first few to six months is when you'll start to see progress, before that things get a bit whacky. IMO, if it's a condition that requires meds, the FAA should say you can't fly for the initial six months, then a doctor's eval after that. Similar to what they do with BP medications. That way the known side effects can be dealt with outside of the cockpit, the dosage can be tweaked, and if the meds need to be altered, they can be. My wife's been taking Zoloft for nearly 10 years now, and she's SOOOO much better on the meds than off. On the meds, she's just like everyone else. Off the meds.....well, we almost got divorced when she was off of them.

If you wanna keep your head in the sand and ignore medical progress, fine. I guess we could just keep BP and cholesterol medications a disqualifier, too. Then we'd have guys having heart attacks and strokes and the controls b/c they didn't want to lose their jobs.
 
Here is my position as clearly as I can state it:

Anti-depressant users will fall into 3 basic categories:

X will be a large number and is the people who benefit from the drug.

Y will be a large number and is the people who don't benefit from the drug but have no major complications and just move on to an alternative. This is not controversial as the drug companies emphasize that a particular drug may not be what's needed. This is standard care, you try the drug, monitor the patient and see how it goes.

Z will be a very small number, but it will be people that have very severe complications or reactions associated with being on one of these drugs. Again, this is not controversial since most of them are listed as possible side-effects of the drug. These side-effects or reactions can include violence, suicidal thoughts or actions and psychotic episodes.

If you want to debate the question of whether these drugs should be approved for use in the cockpit but either aren't aware of Z or refuse to acknowledge the existence of Z it's a rather short debate. The FAA and others are well aware of Z and it's probably the reason these drugs are not approved for professional pilots.

It would be wonderful indeed if X were always the case. But it's not.

I've been following this issue for over 2 decades. On many occasions I've offered to bet a hundred bucks that a particular incident that had just made the news was related to psychotropic drugs. If I could ever have gotten anyone to take my bets I would be a few thousand ahead right now. I got pilloried on a forum when I suggested (the day it happened) that a kid who had just flown his airplane into an office building in Tampa would be found to be on some prescription drug. I was betting on anti-depressants but it turned out to be some kick-ass acne medication that had been linked to suicide in teens.

I am glad that many find relief with these drugs. I just don't think they are ready for the cockpit yet.
 
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