Hour long hold for a briefer

CoffeeIcePapers

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
For the past two days, it has been difficult to get a weather briefer, without holding for an hour. Yesterday, I got one in DC, when calling from TX. Has Lockheed started significantly cutting back FSS stations?
 
mojo6911 said:
For the past two days, it has been difficult to get a weather briefer, without holding for an hour. Yesterday, I got one in DC, when calling from TX. Has Lockheed started significantly cutting back FSS stations?
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Not sure about LH, but I have also waited for an excessive amount of time.
 
I just don't use them anymore . . . if I can help it. I don't like people that think they're doing me a favor . . . DUAT is my friend!

ATC: "FLX305, there's no flight plan in the system, you can call Jackson Radio on 122.65 and file while you taxi"

Me: "Sure." [Logging on to DUAT with my phone to do it faster, and with less attitude than FSS]
 
My favorite is when you call 800-WX-BRIEF, wait for a while then somebody from a different FSS than your local answers (I usually get Great Falls or LA) and as you give them the flight plan info they get huffy about "You need to call your local FSS to file that plan, why did you call me?"

The System is beautiful.
 
bdhill1979 said:
My favorite is when you call 800-WX-BRIEF, wait for a while then somebody from a different FSS than your local answers (I usually get Great Falls or LA) and as you give them the flight plan info they get huffy about "You need to call your local FSS to file that plan, why did you call me?"
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Nothing like bitter, angry, Late-night shift Flight Service guy!
 
LM is in the process of downsizing the FSS. Not only will it be shrunk to a little over 20 FSS but the number of employees will be decreased as well as increasing their respective responsibilities. Most of the FSS will be in Arlingtin
 
mtsu_av8er said:
Nothing like bitter, angry, Late-night shift Flight Service guy!
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One would think is this day and age that the FSS system could at least have computers that are reliably networked so that it didn't matter which FSS you talked to.

I can't count the times I have called to file a plan and get Great Falls FSS instead of Cedar City, but file the plan with Great Falls. Then call Cedar City FSS on the RCO to activate, and Cedar City does not have the plan on file and wants me to file one in the air. I grudgingly do so, as I am getting nearer and nearer to SLC Bravo Airspace. I have to circle while finishing the flight plan to avoid busting Bravo. Then I can finally call SLC to get clearence through Bravo. Then as I am approaching my destination which is in the Great Falls FSS jurisdiction I call on the RCO to close and they have no flight plan on file for me.

Brilliant, and they want us to pay user fees for this kind of service. Honestly I wouldn't mind paying them if the service were to improve, but I have a strong feeling that any money they get is mismanaged to the highest degree.
 
"On the basis of what Lockheed Martin will deliver under the contract, pilots are going to be much better served and much safer. Just as important, there will not be a fee for the service.

All the FS21 facilities will be tied together in a super network, sharing a common database. Every briefer will have access to all information.

Performance Measurements — For the first time there are specific, measurable performance requirements for flight service specialists. These performance measures include a contractual guarantee that a live briefer will answer pilots' phone calls within 20 seconds and acknowledge their radio calls within five seconds. Flight plans will be filed within three minutes.
Telephone Briefings — Pilots will still be able to get a briefing over the telephone, and all of the in-flight radio frequencies will remain the same.
Computer-based Interactive Briefings — Pilots will be able to access flight service via a Web portal and receive an interactive briefing. This gives pilots the ability to file flight plans online and see the same charts and weather maps on their computers as the briefer sees.
Pilot Profiles — If desired, pilots will be able to file pilot and aircraft profiles in the system so that the briefer can tailor the information specifically to an experience level.
E-mail and PDA Alerts — If a notam comes out or there is a significant change in the weather after a pilot's live or computer-based briefing, the system will send the pilot an electronic alert.
Local Knowledge — Briefers will be trained to specific geographic areas, ensuring pilots will still have access to specialized knowledge of local conditions. When pilots first contact an FS21 facility, they'll be prompted to indicate the area that the flight will occur, so that they can be connected to a briefer who knows the area.
Integrated Flight Planning Database — SF21 will have a fully integrated database that is networked nationwide, allowing all AFSS specialists to access flight plan information from a single, common database regardless of their physical location."

source: http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/air_traffic/a76_process.html
 
subpilot said:
"On the basis of what Lockheed Martin will deliver under the contract, pilots are going to be much better served and much safer. Just as important, there will not be a fee for the service.

All the FS21 facilities will be tied together in a super network, sharing a common database. Every briefer will have access to all information.

Performance Measurements — For the first time there are specific, measurable performance requirements for flight service specialists. These performance measures include a contractual guarantee that a live briefer will answer pilots' phone calls within 20 seconds and acknowledge their radio calls within five seconds. Flight plans will be filed within three minutes.
Telephone Briefings — Pilots will still be able to get a briefing over the telephone, and all of the in-flight radio frequencies will remain the same.
Computer-based Interactive Briefings — Pilots will be able to access flight service via a Web portal and receive an interactive briefing. This gives pilots the ability to file flight plans online and see the same charts and weather maps on their computers as the briefer sees.
Pilot Profiles — If desired, pilots will be able to file pilot and aircraft profiles in the system so that the briefer can tailor the information specifically to an experience level.
E-mail and PDA Alerts — If a notam comes out or there is a significant change in the weather after a pilot's live or computer-based briefing, the system will send the pilot an electronic alert.
Local Knowledge — Briefers will be trained to specific geographic areas, ensuring pilots will still have access to specialized knowledge of local conditions. When pilots first contact an FS21 facility, they'll be prompted to indicate the area that the flight will occur, so that they can be connected to a briefer who knows the area.
Integrated Flight Planning Database — SF21 will have a fully integrated database that is networked nationwide, allowing all AFSS specialists to access flight plan information from a single, common database regardless of their physical location."

source: http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/air_traffic/a76_process.html
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Let us hope
 
I dont know much about the switch however i do know my briefs have been noticeably LONGER. I was trying to get an IFR wx brief from MQJ to GYH and was on the phone for nearly an hour TALKING and listening to this man tell me things. He went over every single FDC notam between the way for each airport and just a lot of stuff I kind of thought was useless in a sense. Anyways I know they have had some difficulties and they have been doing there best. Hopefully it'll change shortly!
 
I have been a big fan of getting the weather off of ADDS and DUATS, then calling and getting an abbreviated brief to file. I still like talking to someone, sort of double checking myself, but some of those guys will just throw a mountain of info (a lot of which does not apply to your flight at all) if you let them.
 
Don't expect anything to change when it has to do with our NAS. . . shortly.

And I'm the same way, with my weather background, I don't need someone else telling me what the hell is going on when I can sit and analyze my own charts if I really felt the need. ADDS and DUATS, and then an abbreviated brief for any TFRs or Local NOTAMs that need to be told me that I hadn't come across. Also to check on the activity of any local MOAs. And of course - If I'm filing.
 
bdhill1979 said:
My favorite is when you call 800-WX-BRIEF, wait for a while then somebody from a different FSS than your local answers (I usually get Great Falls or LA) and as you give them the flight plan info they get huffy about "You need to call your local FSS to file that plan, why did you call me?"

The System is beautiful.
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:yeahthat: Had one get huffy with me in MEM a few weeks ago.
 
I use solely internet and DUATS for weather anymore. The telephone briefers are largely useless.

I do, however, continue to call the FSS just to ask "are there any TFRs on or within 50 n.m. of my route of flight?" Cause when something happens, I want that question and the answer on tape!! (not that I'm paranoid)
 
Minnesota_Flyer said:
I do, however, continue to call the FSS just to ask "are there any TFRs on or within 50 n.m. of my route of flight?" Cause when something happens, I want that question and the answer on tape!! (not that I'm paranoid)
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Well you gotta watch out for that too, there have been a couple of instances where pilots got in trouble even though they called fss. Lockheed refused to provide the tapes and thus sealing their fate. Lockheed is a private company contracted by the government and they do not have to provide any kind of documents or evidence unless a court order is present.
Better start recording the calls yourself ;).
 
flynik said:
Well you gotta watch out for that too, there have been a couple of instances where pilots got in trouble even though they called fss. Lockheed refused to provide the tapes and thus sealing their faith. Lockheed is a private company contracted by the government and they do not have to provide any kind of documents or evidence unless a court order is present.
Better start recording the calls yourself ;).
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Seriously?:confused: They "Don't have to"? That is MESSED UP. So the pilot calls, gets a brief, the briefer omits a TFR, pilot busts TFR, unless there is a court order pilot is screwed? :mad:
 
bdhill1979 said:
Seriously?:confused: They "Don't have to"? That is MESSED UP. So the pilot calls, gets a brief, the briefer omits a TFR, pilot busts TFR, unless there is a court order pilot is screwed? :mad:
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Pretty much...

Check this (Long but interesting) story out:
http://www.x-plane.com/adventures/tfr.html


"AND LOCKHEED HAS REFUSED TO PROVIDE ME WITH A COPY OF MY BRIEFING, CLAIMING "WE DO NOT PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION TO THE PUBLIC". "

Just great!
 
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