Horizon

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
What? 52 Qs and 6 E 175s? Horizon is easily replaceable by Air Group if that's what they really wanted. Although regionals are desperate for pilots, all it takes is a continual upshift of flying from regionals to mainline and then you have a bunch of RJs and a bunch of pilots sitting around. Air Wisconsin just got saved by switching their entire flying from AA to UA express. Never underestimate a mainline's ability to utterly crush one regional operation, shift flying/capacity elsewhere to another regional, or back within mainline, etc.
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And with Alaska entering contract negotiations, the pilot group might want some real scope language with the leverage from the pilot shortage. They could get it to.
 
z987k said:
And with Alaska entering contract negotiations, the pilot group might want some real scope language with the leverage from the pilot shortage. They could get it to.
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It's all going to arbitration. I have zero hope because it's all out of our hands now. Contract 2020 (whenever that comes in 2020-2023) will be our chance for some real scope language.

Horizon shouldn't even exist. It should just be "Alaska Airlines" and a newhire at Alaska starts as a Q400 FO.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It's all going to arbitration. I have zero hope because it's all out of our hands now. Contract 2020 (whenever that comes in 2020-2023) will be our chance for some real scope language.

Horizon shouldn't even exist. It should just be "Alaska Airlines" and a newhire at Alaska starts as a Q400 FO.
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Ouch, so no chance to vote on this contract?
 
z987k said:
Ouch, so no chance to vote on this contract?
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Correct.

3 sections of the current AS contract were opened for negotiation, the other ~26 sections would be accepted as-is for the purposes of the JCBA. All 3 open sections (scope, compensation, retirement/defined contribution) are headed to arbitration. With an arbitrated result, there is no vote. We just have to suck up whatever result comes out good or bad. The only chance for a vote now is if by some magic the company decides to propose something meaningful for the 3 sections directly to the union. Considering the negotiations this year and the mediated sessions that all went nowhere, I'm not holding my breath.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Correct.

3 sections of the current AS contract were opened for negotiation, the other ~26 sections would be accepted as-is for the purposes of the JCBA. All 3 open sections (scope, compensation, retirement/defined contribution) are headed to arbitration. With an arbitrated result, there is no vote. We just have to suck up whatever result comes out good or bad. The only chance for a vote now is if by some magic the company decides to propose something meaningful for the 3 sections directly to the union. Considering the negotiations this year and the mediated sessions that all went nowhere, I'm not holding my breath.
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what about length? How about 12 months and back to section 6? Is that not possible?
Is Alaska not concerned at all with attracting new pilots, or are they going to try the Horizon model where you cancel a crap ton of flights every day and then cry about a problem that a blind person with brain damage could foresee?
 
z987k said:
what about length? How about 12 months and back to section 6? Is that not possible?
Is Alaska not concerned at all with attracting new pilots, or are they going to try the Horizon model where you cancel a crap ton of flights every day and then cry about a problem that a blind person with brain damage could foresee?
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I would be surprised if AS had an issue attracting pilots any time soon.
 
z987k said:
what about length? How about 12 months and back to section 6? Is that not possible?
Is Alaska not concerned at all with attracting new pilots, or are they going to try the Horizon model where you cancel a crap ton of flights every day and then cry about a problem that a blind person with brain damage could foresee?
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Length will be through 2020. I should add that there is a LOA for Section 25 scheduling improvements and that is outside the negotiation/mediation/arbitration process the other 3 sections are going through. This LOA might yield some improvements. As for pilot attraction and retention, it seems Alaska has always gotten people to work there for the Alaska name or for the Alaska and/or PNW ties. It is also a major with the most west coast bases ANC, SEA, PDX, SFO, and LAX. They'll continue getting these types of applicants.
 
mikecweb said:
I wouldn’t. It’s sad but they need to stop destroying that company.
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From the outside looking in, it looks like Alaska's desire is to compete with spirit and frontier for pilots, with west coast bases.
It's a pretty dated product to. I know I choose delta when I can.
 
For newhire, would y'all recommend Horizon over one of American wholly owned?...PSA?

Where do you guys see Horizon in a year or two? Flow? Growth? I.e. 60 Ejet and keep 50 ish Q?

Thanks
 
That comes down to mostly quality of life question. Do you want to live where Envoy / PSA / ?? bases are or live where QX bases are? The compensation and benifits are approxmiatly the same at both places. YMMV. At the end of 2017 QX should have 13 E-175 and 52 Q-400. Alaska Air Group 2016 10 - K forecasts at the end of 2019 Alaska regional (QX, OO) to have a loss of 15 Q-400s and a gain of 20 E-175 jets. Projected fleet in 2019 37 Q-400 and 53 E-175. So, math in public...QX is projected to have 13 E-175s at the end of this year, OO Operated 15...that makes 28 E-175 for the AS regional fleet at the end of 2017. That makes 24 E-175s remaining, AS ordered 33 for QX, with options of 30 more in 2020. So, QX is on that trajactory for growth.

The rest is a crap shoot. Actually, probably better off in Vegas or Reno actually gambling than trying to figure out airline futures. More fun too and drinking is encouraged! The Qs are to AS as the MD-88s are to Delta. Alrealy paid for and making money. Lots of money on the routes they fly.

Flow is complcated thing. The only airline that has it is American. Majority have agreements for interviews. I'd plan on being at a regional at least 5 years, upgrading, doing some training or checking, and thinking ball park 5k total and 1k 121 PIC. Unless you're well connected, that's probably what you're in for. So, QOL at an airline for the next 5 years, maybe a career, maybe less. When the economey takes another dump and the majors slow or f-word, you'll need to be competitive. The industry has 180'd itsself since I got into it 10 years ago, when no one was hiring, and CFIs were getting to regionals with 3k of flight instructing.

If you have more speific questions on QX PM me. I'll answer when I can.


Taylor814ce said:
For newhire, would y'all recommend Horizon over one of American wholly owned?...PSA?

Where do you guys see Horizon in a year or two? Flow? Growth? I.e. 60 Ejet and keep 50 ish Q?

Thanks
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pdxcfi said:
That comes down to mostly quality of life question. Do you want to live where Envoy / PSA / ?? bases are or live where QX bases are? The compensation and benifits are approxmiatly the same at both places. YMMV. At the end of 2017 QX should have 13 E-175 and 52 Q-400. Alaska Air Group 2016 10 - K forecasts at the end of 2019 Alaska regional (QX, OO) to have a loss of 15 Q-400s and a gain of 20 E-175 jets. Projected fleet in 2019 37 Q-400 and 53 E-175. So, math in public...QX is projected to have 13 E-175s at the end of this year, OO Operated 15...that makes 28 E-175 for the AS regional fleet at the end of 2017. That makes 24 E-175s remaining, AS ordered 33 for QX, with options of 30 more in 2020. So, QX is on that trajactory for growth.

The rest is a crap shoot. Actually, probably better off in Vegas or Reno actually gambling than trying to figure out airline futures. More fun too and drinking is encouraged! The Qs are to AS as the MD-88s are to Delta. Alrealy paid for and making money. Lots of money on the routes they fly.

Flow is complcated thing. The only airline that has it is American. Majority have agreements for interviews. I'd plan on being at a regional at least 5 years, upgrading, doing some training or checking, and thinking ball park 5k total and 1k 121 PIC. Unless you're well connected, that's probably what you're in for. So, QOL at an airline for the next 5 years, maybe a career, maybe less. When the economey takes another dump and the majors slow or f-word, you'll need to be competitive. The industry has 180'd itsself since I got into it 10 years ago, when no one was hiring, and CFIs were getting to regionals with 3k of flight instructing.

If you have more speific questions on QX PM me. I'll answer when I can.
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You realize OO is already operating 20 E175s for Alaska?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
What? 52 Qs and 6 E 175s? Horizon is easily replaceable by Air Group if that's what they really wanted. Although regionals are desperate for pilots, all it takes is a continual upshift of flying from regionals to mainline and then you have a bunch of RJs and a bunch of pilots sitting around. Air Wisconsin just got saved by switching their entire flying from AA to UA express. Never underestimate a mainline's ability to utterly crush one regional operation, shift flying/capacity elsewhere to another regional, or back within mainline, etc.
Click to expand...

Sure, that'll happen too.


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pdxcfi said:
That comes down to mostly quality of life question. Do you want to live where Envoy / PSA / ?? bases are or live where QX bases are? The compensation and benifits are approxmiatly the same at both places. YMMV. At the end of 2017 QX should have 13 E-175 and 52 Q-400. Alaska Air Group 2016 10 - K forecasts at the end of 2019 Alaska regional (QX, OO) to have a loss of 15 Q-400s and a gain of 20 E-175 jets. Projected fleet in 2019 37 Q-400 and 53 E-175. So, math in public...QX is projected to have 13 E-175s at the end of this year, OO Operated 15...that makes 28 E-175 for the AS regional fleet at the end of 2017. That makes 24 E-175s remaining, AS ordered 33 for QX, with options of 30 more in 2020. So, QX is on that trajactory for growth.

The rest is a crap shoot. Actually, probably better off in Vegas or Reno actually gambling than trying to figure out airline futures. More fun too and drinking is encouraged! The Qs are to AS as the MD-88s are to Delta. Alrealy paid for and making money. Lots of money on the routes they fly.

Flow is complcated thing. The only airline that has it is American. Majority have agreements for interviews. I'd plan on being at a regional at least 5 years, upgrading, doing some training or checking, and thinking ball park 5k total and 1k 121 PIC. Unless you're well connected, that's probably what you're in for. So, QOL at an airline for the next 5 years, maybe a career, maybe less. When the economey takes another dump and the majors slow or f-word, you'll need to be competitive. The industry has 180'd itsself since I got into it 10 years ago, when no one was hiring, and CFIs were getting to regionals with 3k of flight instructing.

If you have more speific questions on QX PM me. I'll answer when I can.
Click to expand...


PM sent! Thanks
 
Had my first IOE trip this week. The Q is really a different beast than I have flown before. Granted the previous jet (E175) I have limited experience in, but that was way easier to fly and a lot more forgiving on the landings lol. The transition from Ejet to Q in the right seat was hard enough, things will get interesting when the guys who are in the Ejet choose to upgrade in the Q that's for sure.
 
The AS/VX negotiations have gone on to arbitration after failed negotiations and mediation. This past week ALPA and the company's positions were released to both groups. Suffice it to say, scope was only proposed by ALPA (and barely that) and a flow is not even on the table. IF ever a flow through would happen it would be 5+ years off. I hate to see that be the case because they are "our" passengers so why not reward those flying them regionally? AS/VX should have a flow through program but we had a crappy time as it was negotiating just 3 sections of the contract.
 
What can 1st/2nd year FO realistically make monthIy gross? I know the hourly rate but just want to know the average gross monthly with soft pay. Would there be any difference between Q and Ejet?

Thanks
 
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