ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
That was my thought. I was pleasantly surprised. Yes the 450am redding departure sucks, but that's about the only downside.
Horizon
- Thread starter ppragman
- Start date
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
Alaska sees Horizon as a "petulant child" that must be spanked and made to behave...Keep an eye on the "new Alaska Uniforms", you'll see them put both AS and QX in the same uniforms for a "constant product for the customers", and then they'll peel the Horizon name off the Q400's (and whatever they buy jet wise) and it'll only say Alaska. The only thing that will say "Horizon Air Industries" will be the paycheck, because we're not "good enough" to be treated like we're really part of the "I Am Alaska" movement.
If @CirrusMonkey says it's been a drastic change, then I've had my world turned upside down. I got hired when we were a real, honest to God regional airline. We did our own routes, marketing, reservations...our planes said "Horizon" proudly on the sides...which matched my wings, my ID and my paycheck. we were the "Wings of the Great Northwest". The people still are...but sadly, the company is now asking how many times and how high when Brad says "jump!".
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
If second year pay was 40 id be all over it
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Unless you're only planning on spending two years at a regional, then the smart move is to look past the current pay scale when making that decision.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
This was the Horizon of when I was growing up as a Seattle kid in the 80s and dreaming of a future at the airlines. It is sad what has happened in the last couple years.
alaskadrifter
Landing gear operator
As disappointing as this all is, I think QX might still be my best path to AS. 7H is in limbo and KS doesnt kneed freighter pilots right now. But that is only something I can know in retrospect.
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SmoothLanderJ
Well-Known Member
SurferLucas said:
After a year and a half here at the Eskimo I totally agree...sadly.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
With savings completely depleted trying to make ends meet at my current gig, in all honesty first year pay matters to me more than all other things aside from a long commute
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sefro
Well-Known Member
I guess I don't really understand why they are rebranding the company. Horizon was a very strong brand in their market and I don't really see the advantage of using Alaska's brand. I curious to see if they will survive the next 10 years.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Take it from many who have blazed the path before you...seriously....unless you are only going to spend a year at a regional (like guys who all ready have lots of TPIC and are simply flying at the regionals to remain current), that is a very misplaced sense of priority.
A few bucks plus or minus on first year pay will really not make much of a difference to your paycheck's bottom line. The difference between $30/hour and $40/hour is not going to keep you afloat or sink your personal finances. What might hurt, though, is being stuck at low pay for years, on reserve, or worse at a shrinking/declining company. It might hurt your bottom line to go to the bottom of the list at another regional in a year or two, trying to find a better home.
Since most regional pilots will spend three or four years flying at the regionals before moving on to the majors (even under the best circumstances; much longer at regionals with slower seniority list progression where pilots will fly less hours or take longer to upgrade), you are doing yourself a massive disservice in not weighing the other factors heavily. In fact, IMO, first year pay is a minor detail when compared to the other factors.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
Because you're dealing with ego's...and Alaska honestly, until as of late, hasn't had the same reputation as Horizon..Esp in the customer service realm.
RMCBear08
Well-Known Member
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
I do understand what you are saying, I want to make it clear that I am not chasing a quick upgrade or thinking I will be out of the regional game within two years as many are much more qualified than myself. I have taken into account all of the factors you brought up. I was stating to a PenAir pilot that if the first year pay was higher, the job would be great as my QoL at Pen Air would be awesome considering they are flying to locations my current airline once served. I would live in base and that is important to me as well. One big factor I take into consideration is a shift in the demand for pilots and a stagnant hiring period, if I would be happy at a company for an extended period of time weighs into my decision as well.
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
I just wish Horizon would keep up with the industry in adding incentives for pilots to go there. I have a SkyWest interview next month as their first year pay is good and they have a bonus for pt 135 experience. So far that seems like the best option. The negative to SkyWest is it will be an ORD or MSP commute for a while which seems like a stressful commute living in PDX. I have always wanted to fly for Horizon and have stated that before, but many of my former co-workers told me to look elsewhere (SkyWest or Compass). I get it, people don't want to fly T-Props anymore, but I am not a child of SJS either. The PAY and QOL is higher priority than the equipment I am able to fly or how fast my upgrade is. That is why SkyWest wins right now. Pay is 36.50/hr vs Horizon 30/hr. Add the 7500 bonus and that trumps Horizon in the pay column for sure. Also, aside from commuting I have not heard many negative things about QoL at SkyWest. Now if Horizon was to up their incentives to pilots, I would seriously consider them as a top choice once again. I hope that does not come across to anyone as "entitled", because that is not what I want to paint by any means. I understand most here on JC joined the regionals when first year pay was 20 an hour and there was no such thing as bonuses, in fact paying for hotels during training and signing fat training contracts were the norm a few years ago. I for one am glad that trend has reversed and things are changing across the board.
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SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
Horizon won't be offering up bonuses anytime soon, the union made a point to tell them "you do it for new hires, you do it for all". Attracting new pilot's is not our problem, that's managements. If they want the "cream of the crop", well, that comes with raising payrates. It also comes with dropping the idiotic "4 year seat lock" they're insisting upon.
If you get hired at QX today, you will be in the right seat of the Q400 till you upgrade...period. 5/6 leg days, 10-12hr overnights in PSC/EAT/YKM/BLI/YVR/YYJ/etc and those hired after Sept on the 175 will get to have long legs/longer overnights/weekends off/etc.
Keep in mind, Horizon does what Alaska tells them...so until they start feeling the pinch, they'll continue down the current path. They still think it's enough that "people want to live in the NW!".
If you get hired at QX today, you will be in the right seat of the Q400 till you upgrade...period. 5/6 leg days, 10-12hr overnights in PSC/EAT/YKM/BLI/YVR/YYJ/etc and those hired after Sept on the 175 will get to have long legs/longer overnights/weekends off/etc.
Keep in mind, Horizon does what Alaska tells them...so until they start feeling the pinch, they'll continue down the current path. They still think it's enough that "people want to live in the NW!".
JDean3204
Well-Known Member
I agree 100 percent about offering payraises to all pilots on property, the bonus seems to be a bandaid for management to kick the can down the road
WS
Well-Known Member
I interviewed at both Skywest and Horizon and was offered a position at both. I went with Horizon for the whole "people want to live in the NW!" reason. Maybe that burns other people in the end, but I have to do what I think is best for me. I was told 6-9 months to get the base I want at SKW vs. a very good possibility immediately at QX, not to mention that the other likely possibilities are within driving distance, and since I have a young child, being home as much as possible and avoiding a commute is the number one priority. Maybe the short and numerous legs will be a drag, but I won't have anything else to compare it to except my time flying 135 freight, and I would have been thrilled to have a 12 hour overnight then. Besides, I've got good friends and family near BLI, YVR and YYJ, so an overnight there would be fine with me. It's not about the money for me, as I'm taking a pay cut to go to either place. It's about being there for my family and flying MUCH better and safer equipment for a better company (than my previous gig). 9 months is a LONG time to a very young kid who misses their Dad. Home is where I want to be as much as possible, so QX it is.
I start training very soon, so I still don't really know what I'm getting myself into, but it does sort of seem that Horizon has been living on their prior reputation of being an excellent place to work. I hope there's still some truth to that. I had always held Horizon in very high regard, so it was sort of discouraging to read all of the recent negativity about them, but it is what it is.
As for the equipment, the Dash has always been an airplane that I wanted to fly since I was a kid, so there's that.
SurferLucas
Southern Gentleman
There's more truth to that, than you know. The people are what make Horizon, and we still have the "Heart of Horizon" in the crews on the planes.
You're going to have fun at Horizon, esp if you fly with me (it's a requirement)...I can't speak for the other captains (@pdxcfi @pete2800 ), but they seem like good guys to fly with
Don't get too down on yourself in training...it's a ton of information to absorb (and yes I know all airlines are like that, trust me on this, Horizon training has more info than you can imagine). The instructors will do anything to help you pass, so go in with a clear mind and positive attitude, and you'll do just fine. Training here is top notch, they keep passing me, so they have to be very good.
QX has it's fair share of "issues", but compared to what I hear from friends at other airlines, we've got it pretty damn good.
The Q400 is like a truck...but boy is it fun to fly, on a visual approach...into say, EAT or the Bay Visual into SeaTac on a summer evening