Hope it happens

Oh BTW they'll make more money on strike pay. If Comair pilots that were making $17,000 a year make more on strike pay from the union, then Mesaba pilots will make LOADS more than they would if they took the lower wages.
 
Chris_Ford said:
It would presumably stop the regionals from being a "entry-level job" where the higher time requirement would ultimately result in older applicants, who in turn, are more likely to have more financial responsibility (homes, wives, children, etc)
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Sorry, no way! A few hundred hours after where I'm at right now and I'm gonna have a house, wife, and kid?

Regional airlines would be the intermediate point in many people's career goal sequence.

They want to work as a flight instructor/banner tower/etc. but they want to work at a regional airline after.
They'd like to work at a regional but they want to work at a major airline after.
They want to remain at the major airline for as long as they are able.

As long as the regional airline is step two for most people, a few hundred hours difference in total time is not going to make a difference. They'll just have to wait another year or two to apply.
 
John Herreshoff said:
Oh BTW they'll make more money on strike pay. If Comair pilots that were making $17,000 a year make more on strike pay from the union, then Mesaba pilots will make LOADS more than they would if they took the lower wages.
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John where do you think strike pay comes from? From your union dues. It isn't a gift from the gov't.

Most unions have enough money to support a full blown strike for about 3 months.

Then what?
 
Nick said:
In fact, since they might have in some cases spent more time instructing or flying traffic or whatever other flying job they had, they are now more eager to move on and get to the next level and could possibly be more willing to take a pay cut to do it.
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Heck no, man! Let me tell you from experience - it doesn't work that way. When I had 300 hours, I would have bet money that I'd go to a regional as soon as the opportunity presented itself.

Now at about 1500 TT, I'm finding it hard to justify at 40-50% paycut just so that I can tell everybody that I'm an airline pilot!!! Flight instructing is the most fun I've ever had, I get paid very well to fly a C-206 around quite often (to some pretty cool destinations, I might add) and I'm home more than I need to be!!

So . . . why would I want to go to a Regional so bad?
 
You may be in the minority that does not necessarily want to move on. You've got a good job where you are now and you're happy staying put.

There is a large group of pilots out there, however, that will take a job at a regional airline as soon as possible because that has been their goal so that they can fulfill their ultimate goal of working for a major airline after (or maybe stay at the regional if they like it once they earn more after first year/probation pay, given a choice if they have one).

I am not saying that these pilots want to take a pay cut (nobody does) or that they want the job to tell people they are an airline pilot. What I am saying is that there is definitely a chunk of the 250TT to 1500TT pilot group that will move on from their current job up/down to a regional airline JUST so they can keep progressing towards other goals they have. Not all of 'em, but some.
 
Nick said:
You may be in the minority that does not necessarily want to move on. You've got a good job where you are now and you're happy staying put.
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No, you're missing it - I DO want to move on! Very badly! I don't want to fly 172's for the rest of my life.

That being said, I'm NOT willing to do it for $13,000. Maybe I will one day, but not this week! [/quote]

Also, my job isn't that much better than another - I just make the best of what I have!
 
I'm well aware, John. If the company won't come to the table after three months then I'll bet you it means one of two things; the company has hired on scabs or the company doesn't exist anymore.

Either way, $10,000 a year is an insult.
 
mtsu_av8er said:
No, you're missing it - I DO want to move on! Very badly! I don't want to fly 172's for the rest of my life.

That being said, I'm NOT willing to do it for $13,000. Maybe I will one day, but not this week!
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Well in that case, I say non-sarcastically, good for you and I respect that. You are in the group that has the patience to wait for something better and isn't willing to "sell their soul for a jet."

I still think, though, that there's a large group of pilots with a different mentality, that WILL take a paycut and unfortunately, work for peanuts for a while just to move on.
 
Wait wait wait...you're saying that we should take a job at $10,000 a year instead?
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LOL yeah like that's something I would do :)

I'm saying the blame is not with the company, as you seem to be indicating.

The blame is with the "dream filled" newbie pilot who will accept the job.

If I start an airline and I have no trouble filling the seats at 10k new hire pay then why is that my fault?

Until the pilot factory flight schools are out of business, that's the way it's going to be.
 
So you're saying that pilots flying under a legaly binding contract don't have the right to strike when their company files a motion with the courts to throw out that contract and pay them half of what they do now?
 
Nick said:
I still think, though, that there's a large group of pilots with a different mentality, that WILL take a paycut and unfortunately, work for peanuts for a while just to move on.
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"We have met the enemy, and he is us". Walt Kelly - "Pogo"
 
John Herreshoff said:
So you're saying that pilots flying under a legaly binding contract don't have the right to strike when their company files a motion with the courts to throw out that contract and pay them half of what they do now?
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Is this part of the university verbal fencing you were talking about last night in the AIM chat?

Isn't this the so-called "bring in a completely unimplied, unrelated issue and see if it upsets him" ploy?

Nice try :)

You are a character John, I give you that lol
 
Chris_Ford said:
It would prevent airlines from lowering the minimums to find pilots who will do whatever it takes to get to an airline.
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???!? I'm trying to make sense of that. Seems self-contradicting.

But I would suggest that you try to find a true correlation between hiring mins and pay/benefits. Historically, hiring mins went up and down depending on who was applying at the time AND each airline's peculiar hiring philosophy. Pay and benefits were not effected by this. Compensation was much more a result of things like union organizing/negotiating success and exposure to competition from non-union airlines.
 
Mr_Creepy said:
The blame is with the "dream filled" newbie pilot who will accept the job.

If I start an airline and I have no trouble filling the seats at 10k new hire pay then why is that my fault?
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I agree completely; that is what I have been trying to say here and maybe I was misunderstood. The company knows that takers are, unfortunately, out there for the very low paying positions. Obviously they are because there are some even beyond that level which moves into the realm of PFJ, which is even more bizarre than being excited about flying for low pay.

Mr_Creepy said:
Until the pilot factory flight schools are out of business, that's the way it's going to be.
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The more I think about it I do think this does have something to do with it. If they do go away I think the group of pilots who'll work for anything will still exist though.

SteveC said:
"We have met the enemy, and he is us". Walt Kelly - "Pogo"
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I have absolutely zero options for posting; I can't make things bold italic or smilies and maybe it's my settings. But I'd insert the "WHAT HE SAID" smiley with the sign right here!!
 
John Herreshoff said:
So you're saying that pilots flying under a legaly binding contract don't have the right to strike when their company files a motion with the courts to throw out that contract and pay them half of what they do now?
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Are you saying they do? (By "have the right" I assume you mean under the Railway Labor Act from which both parties get their "rights".) There seem to be some different legal views on that. We may find out.
 
buffalopilot said:
I am not a NWA pilot, nor an airline pilot. But i feel that the line needs to be drawn by guys like me who are just about to start airline flying. If guys like me are unwilling to take jobs for 10000 dollars a year, the pay will rise. I do not have SJS nor will I take a job for nothing, thus the reason I am sitting back in my old career to see what happends.
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buffalopilot said:
Its for everyones benefit, the guys at NWA, DAL etc. It will not just benefit the up and comers but everyone. Pretty soon, corporate is going to say "HUmm" lets get these 250 hour guys in our planes as a FO for $10000.
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Buffalopilot...dude no offense but you are the king of double speak. One minute your making threads saying that your not going to • yourself out. Then your making threads asking about upgrade times at regional and regional hiring mins.

Are you even still trying to be a pilot? Last I checked you were staying in your medical practice making your $70k or whatever your salary is. So I think hearing you say that you hope that NWA goes on strike for all us when you can't even decide if your coming or going in this industry is in bad taste. Make up your mind if your coming or going staying or leaving then trumpet an airline strike not only will you have more respect in my book but others I'm sure.
 
John,


You made an implication that pilots shouldn't be allowed to seek self help when a legally binding contract is thrown out. Did I read this implication correctly or not? It's a legit question. I know you hate pilots making any kind of decent wage, you've made that obvious here before. I'm wondering if you think that pilots should not be allowed to strike, because remember it's not only the guys coming on that will be taking those pay cuts; it's the guys that are already there.
 
I do in fact assert that they have that right under the railway labor act. That'd be a hard one to dispute.
 
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