Hijab and the cockpit

greaper007 said:
Just to add some thought to this argument. How do you guys feel about women being allowed to walk through the streets of major US cities topless? Before you answer, keep in mind that many of the topless women will be of the old out of shape category. Would you be for that? Telling women they have to cover their hair, or their breasts both seem somewhat ridiculous to me. Though I'm sure there are a lot of right wingers who hate hijabs that would also be offended if grandmothers started walking through the park topless.


IMHO, most cultural norms based on sexuality are stupid, the hijab included. If you want to wear it knock yourself out. If someone is forcing you to wear it, that's a whole 'nother issue.
Click to expand...

Duh, I don't believe there's a law that says a woman cannot wear a hijab in public. There are, however, local laws in the United States governing public nudity. Now, in certain African and Asian countries, it is permissible for tribal women to go topless (both the young and old "ones" :rotfl:)

For me, having a woman go topless on the flight actually wouldn't phase me too much after awhile. . .in conversation, I'd still make "eye to eye" contact given the "normalcy" a topless woman would have after a couple of minutes. :bandit:

I think what ILSstud attempted to convey was there MIGHT be a possibility she had no choice in what she wore on the flight deck (cockpit :D) Excellent question to ponder.

. . .but you're right, "TELLING" women what attire to wear is rather antiquated. . . which differs from saying what is "appropriate" or not.

PS - I can't believe I said all that with a straight face!
 
MFT1Air said:
For me, having a woman go topless on the flight actually wouldn't phase me too much after awhile. . .in conversation, I'd still make "eye to eye" contact given the "normalcy" a topless woman would have after a couple of minutes. :bandit:
Click to expand...
By the livin' God that made you, you're a better man than I am Gunga Din!
 
MFT1Air said:
NOT!! Even with a hijab on, I'd still wonder what she looked like underneath.:cool: Call it testosterone surge.
Click to expand...
Whew.....I don't feel as badly now. lmao I think an FA reporting an issue with rowdy topless females in the cabin would be the first instance of a Captain heaving himself out the seat to go back himself and inspect such potentially dangerous conditions, instead of sending the F/O. You know.....and just to stretch his legs and all.
 
TopGunn said:
<comment removed>
Click to expand...

dude what is your problem .... theyre discussing something who says they cannot have an opinion on it? some defensive angry muslim?


and about the hijab.. whatever wear it if you want but its a fact that religious leaders imposed such restrictive clothing on women to oppress them. as usual the flowery language of the Koran is taken too literally and as a result women are wearing table cloths over themselves because they are expected to dress modestly. and NO not all women wear it to "liberate" themselves but to avoid cultural, familial, and/or societal backlash (it depends on where they live)
 
mikecweb said:
So you now determine who can post their thoughts or feelings? I could give a if you're muslim. He thought it was worthy of discussion. If you don't like it don't post or read the thread.
Click to expand...

Mike,
Is your avatar a pic of Martha being drawn out at gunpoint??? If so, that is glorious!:clap:
 
dasleben said:
Absolutely not. I'm not a religious person at all, but freedom of religion and freedom to be who you are absolutely trumps security. Your outlook is what's caused the downhill slide of civil liberties post-9/11.
Click to expand...


So you'd be alright with a drivers license or pasport photo that looked like this?

images
 
We have a heated debate over that in France, and a law has been passed stating that no one should have their face covered while entering a federal building, requesting documents or doing any public service work. That would then include being an airline pilot. Not that I'm aware of any muslim woman pilot at Air France though.
A few public servants who refused to remove their hijabs while in duty have been fired.
99% of the muslims I know are just the coolest guys (and gals). It's just that this 1% is pretty visible...
 
1. Topgunn, When "some" muslims are not the focal point of the vast majorities of wars, human rights violations, terrorism, and religious intolerance around the world you may find others more tolerant of yours. If you try keeping your opinions to yourself, you may find it may help your cause. I have discussed with a muslim friend of mine (a liberal of that religion) that there should be a reformation. Don't see that happening if all dialog can be shut off with a fatawa to chop off someone's head. But hey, Christians were still burning people 500 yrs ago, so I am cautiously optimistic.

2. I couldn't care less what she wears, but not being able to see her face, I wonder if the garment would slow her up putting on a quick donning oxygen mask? Until this thread got drug in the gutter, that was my first thought...:)
 
granlistillo said:
2. I couldn't care less what she wears, but not being able to see her face, I wonder if the garment would slow her up putting on a quick donning oxygen mask? Until this thread got drug in the gutter, that was my first thought...:)
Click to expand...

That was my first thought as well upon seeing the photograph. As I'm sure she practices the procedure regularly, I can't see it being nothing but a strong hindrance of pilot monitoring operations should an emergency develops. Now, religion aside, "common sense" probably dictates a lessening of the wardrobe during flight deck "sterile ops." (No one on the flight deck taking pictures. :D)

Secondly, I thought it was a good thing to see a female on the flight deck. That rocked. . .progress is being made.
 
Those that attack my comments need to grow up. I didn't attack any religion or make any specific comments except to say that there may be issues wearing headgear that covers your ears and sides and security is more important than religion. I'm not backing down from my criticism of wearing headgear while flying. But thanks to those that attack my comments since you prove your lack of willingness to have a dialogue that doesn't devalue ones person's opinion over another. Your ignorance is proven without me firing a shot at any specific religion.

What is the real reason we've lost freedom's since 9/11? Nothing like someone shutting down another person's comments who you don't agree with. Thanks Topgunn, prag and des.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
This - As long as it doesn't interfere with the performance of one's duties. (I'd want the headset inside on account of "You need to be able to hear!") The Company, though, has the right to dictate what you can and cannot wear. I note the presence of stripes on that garment - looks like the official uniform - that's fine, as long as the regulators don't see a SAFETY problem with it.
Click to expand...

I doubt the headsets on the outside of the garment affects hearing much. There are a lot of people who use that same kind of headset where I work and they wear earplugs underneath and hear fine.

And put me in the camp of "let her wear whatever she wants".

I consider myself a liberal for one reason. It is possible to be conservative in a liberal society, but not to be liberal in a conservative society. To me it just seems like the most logical way to make the most amount of people happy.
 
3green said:
Those that attack my comments need to grow up. I didn't attack any religion or make any specific comments except to say that there may be issues wearing headgear that covers your ears and sides and security is more important than religion. I'm not backing down from my criticism of wearing headgear while flying. But thanks to those that attack my comments since you prove your lack of willingness to have a dialogue that doesn't devalue ones person's opinion over another. Your ignorance is proven without me firing a shot at any specific religion.

What is the real reason we've lost freedom's since 9/11? Nothing like someone shutting down another person's comments who you don't agree with. Thanks Topgunn, prag and des.
Click to expand...

I must be missing something.

I think I saw two posts that addressed your comments, and both seemed to me to be handled fairly respectfully. Yeah, they disagree with your comments, but I don't know of any way to have meaningful dialogue if people can't post opposing opinions.

Maybe you can point out where these "attacks" take place???
 
granlistillo said:
2. I couldn't care less what she wears, but not being able to see her face, I wonder if the garment would slow her up putting on a quick donning oxygen mask? Until this thread got drug in the gutter, that was my first thought...:)
Click to expand...

I think people are getting a hijab mixed up with a burka. A hijab is simply a headscarf covering the hair (not the whole face) and it is not a full body garment. In the photo at the beginning of the thread, if the woman is in fact, wearing a hijab, it looks like she's probably wearing the uniform blazer.

Hijab:
hijab1.jpg

Interesting article about headscarves and their various forms:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/505-muslim-veils-hijab-burqa
 
This are just some of the comments that could be construed as personal and off topic. I could care less about them because I think the vast majority of JC'ers have common sense and are open to discussion without throwing stones or making judgement calls.


i think no one of that religion or culture particularly cares about your feelings. How about you mind your own business.
Click to expand...
Topgunn

Gee, thought this was a forum for discussion. Guess if someone makes a rational argument about headgear its not ok???


Your outlook is what's caused the downhill slide of civil liberties post-9/11.
Click to expand...
Dasleben

How on earth did my one small post cause the slide of 9-11? I was simply posting that security is more important than any one's right to wear headgear that might be an issue since it may cover part of their identity(in this case hair, ears, neckline) or effect their flying.


For one, if that's what you think, then you need to really examine within yourself
Click to expand...
Ppragman

So if it's what I think and shared with other JC'ers why would I need to examine myself? Everyone has a different opinion on subjects and whether we agree or disagree with them it doesn't mean they are crazy or need to do some self-examination because someone else doesn't agree with them.


Time to move on and back to the topic of aviation.
 
My problem with things like the hijab, long skirts, modest shirts, and long braided hair is it INSTANTLY renders and identifies the wearer as a second class citizen. It's not about protection, it's about removing choice. One gender enjoys a great deal more freedom than the other and that's about nothing more than oppression.

That may be a culturally uneducated opinion based on my attraction to strong self-affirmed women though. :D
 
TheShortOne said:
I think people are getting a hijab mixed up with a burka. A hijab is simply a headscarf covering the hair (not the whole face) and it is not a full body garment. In the photo at the beginning of the thread, if the woman is in fact, wearing a hijab, it looks like she's probably wearing the uniform blazer.

Hijab:
hijab1.jpg

Interesting article about headscarves and their various forms:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/505-muslim-veils-hijab-burqa
Click to expand...
Hijabs Burkas and Abayas. I've been in the region and am familiar and not all hijabs are equal. If it doesn't obstruct her vision and ability to don a mask, fine. :)

Now I wonder if that is really the uniform she wants to wear??
 
TheShortOne said:
I think people are getting a hijab mixed up with a burka. A hijab is simply a headscarf covering the hair (not the whole face) and it is not a full body garment. In the photo at the beginning of the thread, if the woman is in fact, wearing a hijab, it looks like she's probably wearing the uniform blazer.

Hijab:
hijab1.jpg

Interesting article about headscarves and their various forms:
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/505-muslim-veils-hijab-burqa
Click to expand...


Heck yeah they should be allowed to wear it. You can see who it is. But if it covers the face, no. Some things (like saftey) trumo religion. Who's to say that someone didn't jack the chick, and dressed like her, covering their face. "Oh, this looks like you, since all we can see is your eyes, so sure, get on the plane and fly it." Ummm noooo!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top