Flightnerd
Well-Known Member
View attachment hi-ils ROW.PDF I was looking at this approach (which is pretty crazy) but was wondering why the course to be flown from the IAF of JENOM is a thick dotted line? I couldn't find it in the NACO legend
HI ILS into Roswell
- Thread starter Flightnerd
- Start date
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Flying saucer only.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
They told me we couldn't have that kinda stuff in the cockpit! Military guys have all the fun.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Heh, you said cockpit.
Flightnerd
Well-Known Member
wow.....
In the F-117, it was 300.
PPrag, the dotted portion is known as a Penetration Track, a mandatory part of a High IAP that takes the jet from the high stucture to the low, with a planned 4000-6000 fpm descent rate.
Flown the WidowMaker many a time.
Flightnerd
Well-Known Member
Dang! 4-6k fpm? Is that to avoid a lower angle approach and reduce the risk of ground missiles?
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I am aware of penetration approaches, the KC10s, F15s, and various other monstrosities did them into Elmendorf quite frequently. That said, I didn't know 300Kts, that sounds like it'd be fun if it weren't for the fact that when you really needed them, there'd be a pretty high probability of someone shooting at you...
So if you were aware, why did you ask the question of what a Penetration Track was?
They have nothing to do with combat, they're just simply a way to keep a fighter-type aircraft with short fuel legs in the high structure as long as possible, while avoiding a step-down descent. It's all in the name of saving gas.
Flightnerd
Well-Known Member
So if you were aware, why did you ask the question of what a Penetration Track was?
.
I asked, I had no clue. But thanks for the info, sounds like a ton of fun to fly
They're interesting. And its nice not to have to bother with level offs for any period of time.
I just like giving ppragman grief
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
So if you were aware, why did you ask the question of what a Penetration Track was?
They have nothing to do with combat, they're just simply a way to keep a fighter-type aircraft with short fuel legs in the high structure as long as possible, while avoiding a step-down descent. It's all in the name of saving gas.
I didn't, that'd be the OP (I made some sort of crude reference several posts in) though I didn't know that the fuel savings was the motive for that sort of thing, I always figured it'd have something to do with getting shot at, interesting. I wonder how much it saves Uncle Sam every year by doing that, probably a lot if every fighter is trying to fly every approach like that. I've always wanted to fly one, I've descended at 4000-6000fpm a couple times, but never doing 300kts on a localizer into an airport. Seems like it'd be cool.
The avoiding-getting-shot-at thing are known as High or Low TRPs, or Tactical Recovery Procedures. But these are VMC things to do. For IMC, an instrument approach is an instrument approach.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
Though I realize they are designed for fuel savings in mind, there are a few that make you scratch your head. My personal favorite, which you are probably familiar with as well MikeD, is the Hi-TAC into NYL. If you fly the whole procedure from RADOS, you end up motoring along at 6k ft for about 30 NM......hardly a fuel saving procedure, though I'd guess all the commercial arrival/dep tracks out of Lindberg and LAX over the top of it preclude a more traditional profile.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
They're interesting. And its nice not to have to bother with level offs for any period of time.
I just like giving ppragman grief
Dammit Daf! Foiled again! By the way, I'm gonna have to come down to KMZJ (what's a ZJ?) and make sure your SA is up to snuf, missin' the poster and tryin' to blame it on me! Tsk tsk
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
It is 300 in the F-15 and T-38. There are occasional times when the penetration is short enough (sts) that there's not a lot of time to get slowed to 250 to get the gear out, so we might decide to hit the IAF at 250 and fly the whole pen at 250, too.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
To be fair, we're not usually flying the Loc portion at 300.
The penetration is at 300, then about 6-9 miles prior to the FAF, we've got to slow down to configure (gear/flap speed is 250 for the Eagle, 240 for the Talon). Then we've got to continue slowing to final approach speed...depending on fuel and external stores, that's going to be somewhere between 160 and 200 knots...which is the speed we wanna be at when we hit the FAF and for the rest of the final approach portion.
I bet you shock cooled your engines that you had been running over squared too. Roadhouse!