Hey Pilatapus operators...

Boris Badenov

Boris Badenov

Fortis Leader
We have a recurring, absolutely maddening problem, wondering if you've seen the same and what you might have discovered.

It's a late(ish) model /45. When cold soaked (under ~40 degrees), the ECS in "auto" almost always overtemps (we think it's the overtemp protection, anyway...the air gets way hot, even with the controller in the full "cold" position), then *ding*, ECS shuts down. Depending on how long the pilot takes to get to the runway, it'll generally happen either right before or right after takeoff. Doesn't happen at higher temperatures at all. Our mechanic, bless his heart (and he is excellent...don't think this is incompetence on his part) has changed every part of the system at least twice. Up to and including the cabin temp sensor which is apparently an unholy female dog to get to. It usually resets fine, although there have been a few incidents of it failing a second time. Any ideas?

Thanks.
 
Does the ECS only shutdown for Temp or will it shutdown for overpressure (think beechjet).
 
Maybe it needs a warm up. Can you set it to moderate temperatures for a few minutes? I can't remember how the system worked but I think having it go full blast right off the bat would cause the CAWS ding boom.
 
Don't know anything about your aircraft, but I do know a thing or two about air cycle systems and the like... Definitely a problem with the system trying to go too warm too early.

Have had some of my trainees on the 707 pack think that they need to put the temp to warm or hot in order to heat up the cabin during cold days, leading to smoke in the cabin from nearly melting the distribution ducting. When you're talking cold days, "cold" on the system is still hot.

Any way you can set the temperature to a max cold setting until the cabin is to a normal temp?
 
MercFE said:
Any way you can set the temperature to a max cold setting until the cabin is to a normal temp?
Click to expand...

That's what we've been doing, and it *usually* works. Thing is, our awesome mechanic (no sarcasm) is a bit of a perfectionist, and I think he's going to get an ulcer trying to make it "right". I will say that I've flown a fair number of other /45s and they don't do this, so something is "brokenish". But from our perspective, it's not that big of a deal. I'm afraid he doesn't quite see it that way...

Dugie: It does have overpressure protection (albeit not with the beechjet's "omfg" blast of what I remember as direct bleed air gushing in to the cabin in "emer"...presumably due to the fact that we're not going to find ourselves at 450 and will have time to get down before the cabin leaks out). But I don't think it's overpressure doing it. The cabin air is scalding within a minute or so of startup, no matter where you have the temp controller.

It's one of those problems that there probably isn't any easy answer to unless someone happens to have had the exact same problem on the same aircraft. Gremlin's been living in this thing since before we had it (~2.5 years ago)...according to our maintainer, there are writeups going back pretty much as long as Omniflight had the aircraft, which I think is roughly 5 years (it's an 8 year old aircraft). *shrug*
 
Dugie8 said:
Did you just use the Mason-Dixon Line as a delineation of north and south?
Click to expand...

I believe it's the generally agreed-upon border. And don't you live in Florida? What would YOU know? Might as well live in NEW YORK CITY. *narrowed eyes*

NY-City.jpg
 
Florida? FLORIDA!?

I will cut you


Isn't the more apt description the latitude that makes the northern border of the Texas pan handle?
 
Minor somewhat relevant necropost:

One of our /45 Series 10s has been having its ECS trip off during the takeoff roll. I haven't looked to compare OAT vs Cabin Temp settings, but I have noticed that if I assertively push the PCL through the low deadband when I'm powering up for takeoff, I don't have a problem with it. It only seems to be a problem if I'm a little tardy getting through that initial deadband. What I've been doing if it does trip off and I get an ECS light during the roll is simply continue the takeoff, then cycle the system off then back to Auto, and the problem is resolved. Not sure if its the same issue as you're seeing, but we try to have the airplane on the runway around 5 minutes after startup.
 
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