Here's a funny story.............

Stomp16

You mean Shennanigans?!?!
Yesterday I am conducting an instrument instruction flight. We go through the start up checklist and taxi down to the run-up area. I notice that he immediately skips to number 11 on the checklist and then procededs to jump around and do whatever part of the check he felt like at the time. After he was all done, I asked him to do everything again but in the proper order. He went through everything again but neglected the emergency takeoff checklist. I can see he's not paying attention and not really into it today. We get cleared and line up on the centerline. He adds full power and ask him what's that and point out the left side of the aircraft. He looks over and takes his hand off of the throttle and I pull the engine on him. He looks back at me and I ask him what are you going to do? Without missing a beat and with a really confused/pissed-off look on his face he says, "F*** if I know!!". So I proceeded with the steps of aborting a take-off and after that we were on our way. It just amazes me how some people feel confident to get into an aircraft but when a little thing happens they lose all productive thought processes. This guy is a private pilot working on his Instrument and is half way through Commercial. He told me after the flight that he never has had anyone go over an aborted T/O situation with him. This is the third flight I have done with him and I have no idea how anyone was confident to endorse him for anything. Makes ya go, hum..........
 

Stomp16

You mean Shennanigans?!?!
Well, Spartan was ok but I can't say I miss it. I'm just doing some part 61 instructing on my own until I get moved to KC next week. Tulsa is not the best place I have ever been in my life and after 6 1/2 years I'm ready for something new. Actually, I would probably rate it somewhere near the bottom. But, it's do-able I guess. Spartan lost the Chinese contract about a year and a half ago and now have a lot of Indian students. Riverside Flight Center right next door has exploded and now are getting a lot of the students Spartan would have been picking up. Because of RFC, Spartan was forced to increase their instructor pay, so that's a good thing. RFC implemented a pay raise last week and Spartan had to follow because a lot of instructors are going where the money is. Who wouldn't, right?
 

Prino

Well-Known Member
doesnt surprise me, spartan students never have impressed me as pilots,my instructor came from tulsa riverside and he sucks.
 

youngflyer

Well-Known Member
doesnt surprise me, spartan students never have impressed me as pilots,my instructor came from tulsa riverside and he sucks.
Huh. I am questioning why he is still your instructor if he "sucks" due to the fact that if he sucks, then you will suck too.
 

Micaoct

Well-Known Member
doesnt surprise me, spartan students never have impressed me as pilots,my instructor came from tulsa riverside and he sucks.
No need to generalize like that. Everywhere you go there are two types of students; motivated ones and slackers. Where ever you go you get what you put in. You can't say that everyone is like that since everyone is different. Just because you had a bad experience with your instructor doesn't mean that everyone at Spartan are bad. I have no experience with the place but I'm sure there are some good pilots there too.
 

Stomp16

You mean Shennanigans?!?!
doesnt surprise me, spartan students never have impressed me as pilots,my instructor came from tulsa riverside and he sucks.
Well, with your whole 35 hours and student pilot certificate, I don't really think that you have a basis to know if somebody "sucks" or not. On top of that, generalizing every pilot coming from Spartan as sub-par is just ignorant. Granted, I did have a worse than average instructor at one point, but I wouldn't say he sucked. He was just brand new and trying to figure out how to teach properly. I recognized this and moved on to a more experienced instructor. Also, I have found that most Spartan grads are a fine group of pilots, for the most part. You have to have your head on somewhat straight to make it through the program. If your instructor is bad, why don't you get someone new? Hell, I even train you and take you to school in the last few days I'm in T-town if your up to it. :rolleyes:
 

Prino

Well-Known Member
To make a few things clear, I never said that all Spartan pilots I've met are bad, just that I haven't been to impressed with them considering the cost of their program. I have no doubt that good pilots come out of there. Secondly, I fly out of Norman, only time I've even been to Tulsa was on a xc. As for my instructor, I guess I'm just a little to patient and naiev in thinking people will stick to their word. He isnt an instructor anymore, and I highly doubt I will continue my flying anytime soon.
 

Stomp16

You mean Shennanigans?!?!
He isnt an instructor anymore, and I highly doubt I will continue my flying anytime soon.
Don't let one bad apple keep you from your flying dreams. Why would you stop flying because of this guy? What's the story behind you and this instructor? I've seen a couple other posts from you about this. What gives?
 

Prino

Well-Known Member
Just tired of taking time out of my schedule to go fly with somebody who doesn't seem to have an interest in teaching me. I've got better stuff to spend my money on.
 

youngflyer

Well-Known Member
Just tired of taking time out of my schedule to go fly with somebody who doesn't seem to have an interest in teaching me. I've got better stuff to spend my money on.
Cmon! Get another instructor who actually likes flying. Like others have said, dont let him ruin you flight career!
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
What is the point of an aborted takeoff in a single engine plane? The only option the person has is to stop, the airplane isn't going to fly.
 

Stomp16

You mean Shennanigans?!?!
What is the point of an aborted takeoff in a single engine plane? The only option the person has is to stop, the airplane isn't going to fly.
Well, really there are only a few situations I can think of. What if something gets onto/crosses the runway when you're only halfway to Vr? What if your engine blows up before you rotate, etc. I once had deer walk onto the end of a runway and aborted a takeoff. Also, right after I received my private, I landed on a short field on a very hot day, fueled up and tried to takeoff fully loaded. I had to abort the takeoff due to not enough runway being left. (I really learned about density altitude that day, it was a good lesson.) But in general, is as easy as saying maintain centerline and bring the airplane to a stop and apply brakes as needed. I was trying to make it simple, but he didn't have any idea what to do.
 

CoffeeIcePapers

Well-Hung Member
Well, really there are only a few situations I can think of. What if something gets onto/crosses the runway when you're only halfway to Vr? What if your engine blows up before you rotate, etc. I once had deer walk onto the end of a runway and aborted a takeoff. Also, right after I received my private, I landed on a short field on a very hot day, fueled up and tried to takeoff fully loaded. I had to abort the takeoff due to not enough runway being left. (I really learned about density altitude that day, it was a good lesson.) But in general, is as easy as saying maintain centerline and bring the airplane to a stop and apply brakes as needed. I was trying to make it simple, but he didn't have any idea what to do.

That is the point, though. You don't have a choice in a single engine airplane. If the engine blows up before rotation, you don't really have any choice but to stop. Same with a deer on the runway before Vr.

Your density altitude situation could have been avoided with proper preflight planning.

I understand engine failures after rotating, engine failures below 1000AGL, engine failures above 1000AGL, etc, but I don't see what the benefit is to an aborted takeoff on the runway.
 

Stomp16

You mean Shennanigans?!?!
Your density altitude situation could have been avoided with proper preflight planning.
You're absolutely, 100% correct. It could have been avoided with proper pre-flight planning. I was a newly minted Private Pilot and thought that nothing could trouble me and that the world was in my hands. Can you say Invulnerability? I made an assumption that I had plenty of runway to get off of the ground. I found out real quick that assumptions can have severe consequences and I learned from this and moved on. Can you honestly say that you've never had a de de dee moment in an aircraft?


The main point behind the aborted take-off is one of, once you've decided to proceed, you don't have to stick with that decision. Like I said, what if something wanders onto the runway? What if you have traveled 1,200ft down the runway but can't get minimum RPM's, or the oil gauge is reading in-correctly? It's a lesson in awareness. We don't just apply full power and just sit there and expect that we're going. The aborted t/o is just emphasizing that we have to be aware that circumstances can arise at any point and we have to be ready to act accordingly. I will not disagree that in the grand scheme of things, an aborted t/o is really a non-event. But, in this particular situation I did it to get the students attention. As mentioned above, he was not paying attention at all and I did this to wake him up.
 

SoonerAv8r

Well-Known Member
So what have their pay scales gone to? Spartan and RFC....
Well, Spartan was ok but I can't say I miss it. I'm just doing some part 61 instructing on my own until I get moved to KC next week. Tulsa is not the best place I have ever been in my life and after 6 1/2 years I'm ready for something new. Actually, I would probably rate it somewhere near the bottom. But, it's do-able I guess. Spartan lost the Chinese contract about a year and a half ago and now have a lot of Indian students. Riverside Flight Center right next door has exploded and now are getting a lot of the students Spartan would have been picking up. Because of RFC, Spartan was forced to increase their instructor pay, so that's a good thing. RFC implemented a pay raise last week and Spartan had to follow because a lot of instructors are going where the money is. Who wouldn't, right?
 

Stomp16

You mean Shennanigans?!?!
So what have their pay scales gone to? Spartan and RFC....
Up until a few months ago, Spartan was $12-13hr for new hires. RFC was paying about $16. As mentioned above, RFC had a pay raise to $20hr and Spartan followed suit because of the competition.
 
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