Help Finding an economical Flying Training School in USA.

There is the option to do the writtens and the flight tests in Europe, there are several FAA flight schools in France and Switzerland that do FAA IR, ME and CPL. But again he will need an FAA PPL to go to the US and fly around
 
Swisspilot, did you do your conversion in Switzerland? I know under the JARs, each country was a bit different, and in the UK there are definitely 14 exams, not 12, for a conversion.

As far as failing the CPL flight test, I never heard of anyone failing this in Spain, but know a handful who have failed in the UK. You are right about the lack of PTS. I asked my instructor during steep turns "what are the test standards" and he had no idea, and said "it is either if you can do them or not". However, in the UK, they are very strict on the navigation part, and you have to arrive at the destination within plus or minus 2 minutes of ETA. Unfortunately, at least in the UK, there is a huge emphasis on the navigation part and not so much on the handling, but any FAA trained pilot should have no problem with the handling, as the JAA CPL skills test is akin to that of the FAA PPL.

Also, an incorrect altimeter setting in the UK flight test is an automatic fail, and some guys have failed when transitioning from QNH to QFE, but I digress.
 
swisspilot said:
There is the option to do the writtens and the flight tests in Europe, there are several FAA flight schools in France and Switzerland that do FAA IR, ME and CPL.
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I know a couple instructors at Orbifly, they seem to be legit. I met them as they were also doing their conversion with me (due to the new EASA regulations)
 
swisspilot said:
The guy I talked too didn`t showed me a quote with 10 lines of tasks to do with many $$$$ in order to get my JAA, or a course. He showed me the regs!! Nowhere it said I need to take ground school, spend a fortune in on-line classes, or buy overpriced jeppesen books, filled with knowledge I don`t need to have. It said what exams I had to pass and what flying exp was I required to have. The regs do say I need to be signed up by a flight school in order to take the writtens, most schools will send you to their year long ground school, while you can just do the question banks for free online! You are already a CPL and you already have the knowledge required trust me, the school will make you take a progress test and send you to take the writtens, wich btw are only 12 if you hold a CPL with IFR. After the writtens are done, and you meet the hours requirmeent all you really need to do is fly to proficiency, I never heard anybody failing a fligth test, there isn`t really a PTS like in the US, just get the stuff done properly and safe and you pass...

yes it`s that easy.
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You make some good points. It is a good idea to look at the different regulations of each country, because even though they are all JAA, the rules can be different. For example, in Spain, if you have less than 500 hours TT, you still have to do the whole syllabus for IR and CPL, over 500 hours and you get half credit for the courses. That equates to 27 hours dual for the IR and 20 hours of dual for the CPL.

In the UK, there are no minimums for CPL conversion, but the IR requires 15 hours of dual (UK specific rule for the moment). Also, in the UK, there is a requirement for classroom instruction for the groundschool to take the exams, even if you do distance learning. This usually equates to at least three weeks in a classroom. If you hold a full ATPL with a type rating on a multipilot airplane, then there are no classroom requirements, nor is there a need to be enrolled with a school.

I understand that Switzerland has some more lax requirements, and also that each country has different requirements for a conversion.
 
You don't need to go to a part 141 school. The flight school I used to work at had European students all the time and they just needed to register at flightschoolcandidates.com or .gov...can't remember. You'd probably spend a lot less and stay closer to your budget if you went part 61. Try glasscockpitaviation.com.
 
There are very few non-Academy/part 141 schools that are approved to train foreigns towards rating.

At my former flight school I have seen motivated students going from zero to CPL AMEL ASEL IR in 7 months following a part 141 program, one of my close friends spent a total of 52K USD including living expenses, travel,....this at Flight Safety Academy.

Lots of peoples are posting schools that don`t have year round conditions to fly a lot, they are really expensive to reach when flying from Europe too.
 
Friends,
Thanks all of you for showing your great concern reaching my goal.I i did my PPL here in UK and that went much higher to that of my expectaions,Uk weather was terrible in that year from i time i was ready for my 150 miles cross country,it took me 6 weeks to get it done.

I did started ATPL ground stuies from Bristol ground school,but changed my mind thinking its still not too late,the reasons i did that are

>I am a dual national UK and Pakistan. My Aim to work in future is Middle east or Pakistan.As Pakistan and whole middle east do accepts both JAR and FAA,I thought why i should be taking a hard,lengthy and expensive route when this can be done with FAA.

> Second reason is i am 34 years old and wanted to complete it as soon as i can .I believe more older you are there may be less opportunities to come.And when i looked on the two sides cost JAR vs FAA, FAA attracted me as JAR may still take may years to complete.

> The money I may save by doing FAA, i can go for type rating and this may enhance job opportunities.I am not much after yet for conversion to JAR.

>Please let me know if i go for part 141,can i still take written exams out side the US,cause luckily There is a test center on Faranbrough Airport UK.

>Do you guys recommend to use the http://www.kingschools.com/ study material,It seems great ?

> I was in talks with this school in Texas www.redbirdskyport.com this is looks a good place and may likely to have a good deal but at the moment their own application for I-20 is in progress.That means they can not sponsor international students yet.

> can you please comment on www.flyaaa.com

> job hunt wise does this really matters to have part 61 or 141 ?
 
Rawalpak said:
Friends,
Thanks all of you for showing your great concern reaching my goal.I i did my PPL here in UK and that went much higher to that of my expectaions,Uk weather was terrible in that year from i time i was ready for my 150 miles cross country,it took me 6 weeks to get it done.

I did started ATPL ground stuies from Bristol ground school,but changed my mind thinking its still not too late,the reasons i did that are

>I am a dual national UK and Pakistan. My Aim to work in future is Middle east or Pakistan.As Pakistan and whole middle east do accepts both JAR and FAA,I thought why i should be taking a hard,lengthy and expensive route when this can be done with FAA.

> Second reason is i am 34 years old and wanted to complete it as soon as i can .I believe more older you are there may be less opportunities to come.And when i looked on the two sides cost JAR vs FAA, FAA attracted me as JAR may still take may years to complete.

> The money I may save by doing FAA, i can go for type rating and this may enhance job opportunities.I am not much after yet for conversion to JAR.

>Please let me know if i go for part 141,can i still take written exams out side the US,cause luckily There is a test center on Faranbrough Airport UK.

>Do you guys recommend to use the http://www.kingschools.com/ study material,It seems great ?

> I was in talks with this school in Texas www.redbirdskyport.com this is looks a good place and may likely to have a good deal but at the moment their own application for I-20 is in progress.That means they can not sponsor international students yet.

> can you please comment on www.flyaaa.com

> job hunt wise does this really matters to have part 61 or 141 ?
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Good idea going the FAA route, becasue in Europe it`s gonna be hard to impossible to find any airline that will hire you with zero experience if you are more then 30 years old.

If you were less then 30 years old I would have told you to go to Australia, it will cost you about the same as getting your FAA, the standards are pretty high, really similar to UK. You can get a one year work permit really fast and work as a CFI or bush pilot. The problem is that you need to be less then 30 years old to get the one year work visa. It would have been perfect since you are allowed to work while in flight school, like bar tending and so on..

I think it makes no sense to take the tests outside your school, I know you are allowed to so, since at my school one time the testing facility was overbooked and many went to an other school becasue they didn`t wanted to wait, this for a 141 CFI course. I`m also pretty sure that Flight Safety at Fafanbrough charges more then anywhere in the US.

I`m trying to get more details from a friend that works at this school I was gonna tell you about, as soon as I have the full details I will PM you.

Get the IFR ebooks of Rod Machado, I can send you my key I should still have 4 to download and don`t really need all of them...you can also download for free the FAA books, FAA website -> Library ->.......

Many will tell you that 141 Academy vs a small 61 will make no difference and that a license is a license. Well around the world some schools do make a difference, this is the case of Flight Safety Academy for example. In the US probably it makes no difference.
 
Rawalpak said:
Friends,
Thanks all of you for showing your great concern reaching my goal.I i did my PPL here in UK and that went much higher to that of my expectaions,Uk weather was terrible in that year from i time i was ready for my 150 miles cross country,it took me 6 weeks to get it done.

I did started ATPL ground stuies from Bristol ground school,but changed my mind thinking its still not too late,the reasons i did that are

>I am a dual national UK and Pakistan. My Aim to work in future is Middle east or Pakistan.As Pakistan and whole middle east do accepts both JAR and FAA,I thought why i should be taking a hard,lengthy and expensive route when this can be done with FAA.

> Second reason is i am 34 years old and wanted to complete it as soon as i can .I believe more older you are there may be less opportunities to come.And when i looked on the two sides cost JAR vs FAA, FAA attracted me as JAR may still take may years to complete.

> The money I may save by doing FAA, i can go for type rating and this may enhance job opportunities.I am not much after yet for conversion to JAR.

>Please let me know if i go for part 141,can i still take written exams out side the US,cause luckily There is a test center on Faranbrough Airport UK.

>Do you guys recommend to use the http://www.kingschools.com/ study material,It seems great ?

> I was in talks with this school in Texas www.redbirdskyport.com this is looks a good place and may likely to have a good deal but at the moment their own application for I-20 is in progress.That means they can not sponsor international students yet.

> can you please comment on www.flyaaa.com

> job hunt wise does this really matters to have part 61 or 141 ?
Click to expand...

Good idea going the FAA route, becasue in Europe it`s gonna be hard to impossible to find any airline that will hire you with zero experience if you are more then 30 years old.

If you were less then 30 years old I would have told you to go to Australia, it will cost you about the same then getting your FAA, the standards are pretty high, really similar to UK. You cna get a one year work permit really fast and work as a CFI or bush pilot. The problem is that you need to be less then 30 years old to get the one year work visa.

I think it makes no sense to take the tests outside your school, I know you are allowed to since at my school it happened one time that the testing facility was overbooked and many went to an other school, this for a 141 CFI course. I`m alos pretty sure that Flight Safety at Fafanbrough charges more then anywhere in the US.

I`m trying to get more details from a friend that works at this school I was gonna tell you about, as soon as I have the full details I will PM you.

Get the IFR ebooks of Rod Machado, I can send you my key I should still have 4 to download and don`t relaly need all of them...

Many will tell you that 141 Academy vs a small 61 will make no difference and that a license is a license. Well around the world some schools do make a difference, this is the case of Flight Safety Academy. In the US probably it makes no difference.
 
swisspilot said:
A Part 141 school can waive the timebuilding if you meet already a good chunk of the hours required, my school use to do it all the time. you will end up with less then 250 and get done a lot faster. Going back and forth will cost him as much as the extra hours of a 141 course anyway.

I agree that the part 61 would be the bets route for most peoples.

The problem here is that he does not hold an FAA PPL, unless he is working towards a rating they won`t give him a letter of approval to fly on his EU PPL, and the FSDO don`t give them to any part 61 FBO or Buddy with a plane to rent.
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Part 141 allows for a maximum of 50% credit for previous training, and that is assuming coming from another 141 course with a similar syllabus. 141 would not work for this guy, he'll end up with way more than 250 hours.

I've instructed at both US Flight and Flight Safety, I would not recommend either. They are both on the expensive side, in particular FSA, and I question the value for money.

I was talking to the owner of New Braunfels Areo Service at KBAZ, seems like a good operation. Not too busy, fairly isolated which is generally good for training but close enough to SAT and AUS to be able to go out an shoot approaches alongside bigger aircraft. $135 for the plane, $45 for the CFI.

I'll say again, assuming the planes are well maintained, the school and the aircraft (glass vs steam, high wing vs low) make basically now difference at all. The quality of the instructor is far and away the most important aspect.
 
Hubbs said:
Part 141 allows for a maximum of 50% credit for previous training, and that is assuming coming from another 141 course with a similar syllabus. 141 would not work for this guy, he'll end up with way more than 250 hours.

I've instructed at both US Flight and Flight Safety, I would not recommend either. They are both on the expensive side, in particular FSA, and I question the value for money.

I was talking to the owner of New Braunfels Areo Service at KBAZ, seems like a good operation. Not too busy, fairly isolated which is generally good for training but close enough to SAT and AUS to be able to go out an shoot approaches alongside bigger aircraft. $135 for the plane, $45 for the CFI.

I'll say again, assuming the planes are well maintained, the school and the aircraft (glass vs steam, high wing vs low) make basically now difference at all. The quality of the instructor is far and away the most important aspect.
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When did you worked at FSA? I worked there in 08/09

Remeber the 5 steps at FSA? We had a foreign pilot that came with a bit of time and an EU PPL, he was enrolled in the Part 141 CMEI course, he got waived Step 1, 1a and 2, he went straight to step 3.

My roomate came with 150 hours TT (most of it XC PIC) and a PPL done part 61, enrolled in the Part 141 CMEI, he started from step 3 also.

When I did my fligth training there, I never flown the hours on the syllabus, my instructor told me to cut the lessons short in Step 2, since I already had enough flight time, we did the same in normal lesson when I would get the stuff done.
 
I was there in 2010.

I do remember the 5 steps, Flight Safety's recovery program, right? First step admitting you have a problem.

Step 2 was time building and Commercial maneuvers right? I would be surprised the FSDO would allow credit towards the Pt141 Commercial syllabus based on a non-FAA private and some miscellaneous flying. That said, the MCO FSDO also claimed that XC could not be logged for the entire duration of a cross country flight. Either way YMMV.

Also, the FSA whole syllabus was daft. Doing Lazy 8s in the Cadet months before transitioning into the Arrow was a waste of time. If you're going to go part 141, the IR should be the next step after the Private.
 
Look into Crystal River Aero Group. They have a lot of european students and seem like honest people. They also have housing on site for $16 a night for a shared room. Good Luck!
 
Rotor2Wing said:
Look into Crystal River Aero Group. They have a lot of european students and seem like honest people. They also have housing on site for $16 a night for a shared room. Good Luck!
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I went there and can't recommend the place enough. I've never heard anything bad about them. It's a family school and they really took care of me as a student away from home.
 
Rotor2Wing said:
Look into Crystal River Aero Group. They have a lot of european students and seem like honest people. They also have housing on site for $16 a night for a shared room. Good Luck!
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Love that airport! stopped there for fuel on the way back from Cedar Key, landed on the grass runway, the FBO is pretty cool too lots of Military and Baseball memorabilia around.

Didn`t that flight school had a Japanese contract?
 
swisspilot said:
Love that airport! stopped there for fuel on the way back from Cedar Key, landed on the grass runway, the FBO is pretty cool too lots of Military and Baseball memorabilia around.

Didn`t that flight school had a Japanese contract?
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I think so. I know they do have Japanese students and instructors.
 
Hubbs said:
I was there in 2010.

I do remember the 5 steps, Flight Safety's recovery program, right? First step admitting you have a problem.

Step 2 was time building and Commercial maneuvers right? I would be surprised the FSDO would allow credit towards the Pt141 Commercial syllabus based on a non-FAA private and some miscellaneous flying. That said, the MCO FSDO also claimed that XC could not be logged for the entire duration of a cross country flight. Either way YMMV.

Also, the FSA whole syllabus was daft. Doing Lazy 8s in the Cadet months before transitioning into the Arrow was a waste of time. If you're going to go part 141, the IR should be the next step after the Private.
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The 5 steps as: PPL, Time Building, ME, IFR, CPL

I think Step 2 was an awesome program, a big portion of FSAs students would come with their private already, in 2007-08 this was almost 50% of the students, step 2 was a good way for them to get used to the area, the FSA standards and have a blast flying around and stopping for lunch in cool places....but most of all would get the students used using a cklist and follwing procedures how flight safatey wanted them, most FSA private students would have very little flight time so I think step 2 was good for them before having to jump in a Multi. There was a time were everybody with at least 150 hours TT got waived step 2, there was a shortage of planes due to massive contracts, I know at least 2 guys that didn`t made it in step 3, they got too stressed and were not used to do things the Fligth Safety way. Step 2 was also good for the CFIs, when I did my SE add on, I was one of the few that did, during several months, guys would leave with their CMEI only, so step two is good for CFIs that get a chance to teach those maneuvers. I think it also made for better pilots. This syllabus is also helped CFIs to build a good amount of Multi Time, not to mention that I wouldn`t like so much flying IMC single engine piston..and the seminole also offered a wider range of approaches to be done, GPS...Back then the need for MEIs also allowed for many to get their MEI for free based on the conrtact they signed.

A waste of money was the SE add On part 141, that even made you do a XC country DUAL, and for most FSA students a waste money also to have to do it in the Arrow.

Overall I think you are mising the moint, the syllabus was oriented towards making future airline pilots, building enough Multi Engine so you would meet, the FSA Airline program they had before you got there with TSA, ASA and AE..as all those would require at least 40 hours of Multi to join the course. Doing the IFR rigth after PPL would have not got them the Multi time needed, but going straight to multi training after your PPL with not even 40 horus TT maybe too rushed and would lead to an high rate of failure, which can be proved from the students that got step 1 and step 2 waived and failed many lessons in step 3....they have used this syllabus for ages, there was several students that didn`t followed it, most of them from India, they did thier IFR in SE, becasue for them multi on a seminole was useless back in India, for some time they had a rented C172 G1000 for them to fly, then they would just get their CPL Multi add on on the Seneca Flight Safety still had back in 2008.

Most foreign students would also never go back to fly a single engine plane, so all that multi is good there.

I was more then happy not to have to go to IFR groundschool right after the PPL step...

The issue you are talking about on XC, was due to some CFI combining lessons, either DUAL or SOLO, were the student or both would stay in the practice area do maneuvers then head for a XC lesson, I did that several times to knock down two lesson in one flight, I would start logging XC when I would leave the practice area. Some Instructors would not allow you to log the time spent in the pattern doing touch and goes as XC time while on a XC flight, I always did, I don`t think a .1 or.2 makes a big difference.

The MCO FSDO was actually pretty nice, Alfonso is a great guy.
 
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