Helicopter EC130 Down at Grand Canyon

Is there a safety stand down for the Grand Canyon tours? I passed through Vegas yesterday and all the helicopters were parked, not a single rotor spinning. It was slightly eerie.
 
touch-n-go said:
Preliminary out. "The helicopter made at least two 360° left turn revolutions as it descended into the wash below where it impacted terrain and a postcrash fire ensued." Possible tail rotor issues? Wind issues?
https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...D=20180210X14603&AKey=1&RType=Prelim&IType=FA
Click to expand...

LTE in those conditions wouldn’t surprise me, and depending on actions of the crew the witnessed pattern of maneuver would seem to back that idea. There is a reason the French stopped using some of their EC series helicopters for mountain rescue.
 
Last edited:
If you're heavy enough and slow enough, LTE is a possibility. And with the right pedal being the power pedal in the EC birds, jamming on it to counter LTE will only overlimit the engine, usually in torque. The pilot has to be aware of the possibility of LTE occurring based on where he's placing the helo altitude and (slow) speed wise, and have already selected and maintained an escape route that will allow him to let the bird rotate left with the torque, with enough AGL underneath him to be able to reduce collective and regain tailrotor effectiveness, to make a forward flight escape from where the LTE occurred. A daily common occurrance in my job to look out for and plan against, especially in summer.

The helicopter is always talking to you. Woe be the pilot who either doesnt understand the language its speaking, or is otherwise ignoring what its telling him..
 
I was thinking LTE as well. On those Ditch tours, do they change the routes or the direction depending on the wind? And then there’s the whole fuel issue. I didn’t realize Airbus snuck this on the AS350 TC. So does it have the same fabulous fuel cell?
 
Skåning said:
I didn't know what LTE was but this helped explain it:
Click to expand...

Basically, the tailrotor has a lot of work to do in trying to counter the torque of the main rotor. There are conditions you can place the bird in to where the tail rotor is at the max extent of the anti-torque it can provide, and it cannot provide any more. Helicopters like the CH-47 Chinook, do not suffer from this.
 
MikeD said:
Basically, the tailrotor has a lot of work to do in trying to counter the torque of the main rotor. There are conditions you can place the bird in to where the tail rotor is at the max extent of the anti-torque it can provide, and it cannot provide any more. Helicopters like the CH-47 Chinook, do not suffer from this.
Click to expand...

Along with that for those that don’t understand black magic helicopter voodoo, doing the incorrect natural reaction of “oh S##t” and increasing power to try and arrest the decent is only goin to exacerbate the situations.

You’re better off with the altitude to do it, diving forward to gain airspeed and take the overload off the tail with air across the vertical stab. That’s a very unnatural thing to want to go and do, and in some altitude conditions may just lead to you slamming crashing nose down instead of belly down increasing the chance of injury/death.
 
sefro said:
I always get a lot of grief from my friends but I always take enough stuff on a day hike that I wouldn’t be killed by staying overnight. It doesn’t take much to be prepared but it is amazing how little people know about the outdoors before they venture out. We recently had a forest fire just outside of Portland that stranded a bunch of day hikers. And on they news they were complaining that search and rescue couldn’t get them out sooner.
Click to expand...

I'm the same way. I always take what I'll need if I had to spend the night (or two) even just for a day hike (and have had to before in remote Colorado).

Easy to lose a trail when its not marked well. You get to thinking "Dang, the trail has to be going over that ridge" and come to find out it doesn't. Maybe when crossing a stream you forget to put your map in a waterproof bag before crossing, and you take a fall. Now your map is wet and useless.

Best thing to do is take a knee, relax a bit, and figure out where you can stay put until rescue comes.

Hopefully you left your plan with someone at home.

I always send a copy to my parents and tell them if you don't hear from me by a designated time, and you've tried to call me with no answer, call the State Police (or other appropriate agency depending on where you go).


I'm on a SAR team here in Texas. I've taught a lot of my family and friends how it works. Most people have no idea!
 
MikeD said:
Basically, the tailrotor has a lot of work to do in trying to counter the torque of the main rotor. There are conditions you can place the bird in to where the tail rotor is at the max extent of the anti-torque it can provide, and it cannot provide any more. Helicopters like the CH-47 Chinook, do not suffer from this.
Click to expand...

This is why im surprised we don't see more dual rotor setups like Kamov does. Is it just that much more complicated to design/make/maintain to be worth it?
 
NovemberEcho said:
This is why im surprised we don't see more dual rotor setups like Kamov does. Is it just that much more complicated to design/make/maintain to be worth it?
Click to expand...

Expensive, more difficult to maintain, and very heavy.

The counter rotational design and tandem designs make sense above a certain gross weight.

Most light helicopters which make up the bulk of the ones flying and include this one from the crash are well below that weight.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top