Hawker Down near AKR

I would say that ARGUS, WYVERN etc are just marketing tools, and really that is true. The different level of status from ARGUS depends on a few things (mx vendor, training, experience level of pilots etc.) but the cost to achieve ARGUS Platinum is more than Silver or Gold.

The bottom line is, this company probably was Argus Platinum, as that is the highest and is a bragging right to unassuming customers. 100 in type for an FO, 100 PIC in type for CA I believe are the pilot requirements specifically (among low TT). Yet nothing takes into account culture, duty/rest, checkride failures etc. and as this situation is showing, you can just doctor your freaking books to get whatever superficial certification you want, and it doesn't mean jack when there is a smoking hole in an apartment building.

I can't remember the benchmark crash that did it, but I really hope this is similar to the fallout of the crash that stopped companies from borrowing certificates. Management should be in jail, and the dead pilots should have never been behind the controls of an airplane. WELCOME TO PART 135 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
 
Or my personal favorite........
ME: "We're AOG due to a mechanical failure. "
DOM: "Well you can't fly with a patient like that, bring it home Part 91 and we'!! figure out how to get the rest of your crew home"
ME: "Errr....what did you just say?"
 
I had one similar...

Me: we have chord showing on 2 of the left main tires
Captain: yea but if we squawk it, we might lose the customer
Me: yea but if we blow the tires and go off the runway and kill everyone, that would be worse
Captain: that won't happen
Me: I am not willing to take that bet, SAWWWWRY
Captain: you are not a team player, I am calling the DO

I have many others.
 
KLB said:
This company does not represent all 135 operators. I worked for a great 135 operator in South Florida. The DO was actually featured in an NBAA article for how well he dealt with abiding by the rest rules. You just have to do your research before applying to some of these jobs. With all the info out here today on most of these companies via social media, it's to identify the bad operators. Now there are some that try to change their name to re-energize their image every once in a while. But they are easily identifiable. I believe that Execuflight may try this in the near future. You just have to be on the lookout for it.
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I didn't mean to apply a blanket statement to all 135 jobs. It just seems like you never know what you're going to get with 135 operators. And your right, if anybody is thinking about taking a 135 job, they should research the company extensively. I know there are good 135 shops out there, kudos to them for doing things right. Unfortunately the bad ones give all 135's a bad name.
 
Inverted said:
Management should be in jail.
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Question—does this ever, EVER happen? Because there are innumerable instances where it undeniably should, but as far as I can tell the worst that ever happens to management is that they move on (and usually 'up').

-Fox
 
Acrofox said:
Question—does this ever, EVER happen? Because there are innumerable instances where it undeniably should, but as far as I can tell the worst that ever happens to management is that they move on (and usually 'up').

-Fox
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Yes it has happened, I just cannot thing of a specific reference to link you to. Hasn't happened nearly as often as it should have.
 
Inverted said:
I can't remember the benchmark crash that did it, but I really hope this is similar to the fallout of the crash that stopped companies from borrowing certificates. Management should be in jail, and the dead pilots should have never been behind the controls of an airplane. WELCOME TO PART 135 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
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That would be the old " put the challenger through the warehouse wall in Teterboro " crash.
:biggrin:
 
There was a presentation - open to the public - by the NTSB today regarding this crash. My CFII was one of the speakers/presenters. I'm curious as to how it went.
 
killbilly said:
There was a presentation - open to the public - by the NTSB today regarding this crash. My CFII was one of the speakers/presenters. I'm curious as to how it went.
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I was only able to catch a tiny bit of it, but main focus to me was that they were very concerned over training contracts...
 
Inverted said:
I was only able to catch a tiny bit of it, but main focus to me was that they were very concerned over training contracts...
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This is a direction that needs a lot of scrutiny. I have never signed one, and I never will... but I've also been fortunate in my choice of employers. It would really have sucked for me to leave my job, pack up, move for the next one, and on day one be told "Oh by the way..."

I'm of the opinion that contracts of adhesion of this nature between an employer and employee should be illegal, especially in the case of safety-critical positions. To my mind they constitute .. eh.

I've been through all this before. We all have.

This industry be ridiculous.

-Fox
 
I heard a little bit online. Vref was apparently supposed to be 124 knots and for the most part they were below that from the FAF inbound. At one point 109.
 
Acrofox said:
Question—does this ever, EVER happen? Because there are innumerable instances where it undeniably should, but as far as I can tell the worst that ever happens to management is that they move on (and usually 'up').

-Fox
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The only examples I know of, they were also involved in other things. Like grand theft and other such felonies.
 
CFI A&P said:
Some examples are no duty rest rules, or rest is written in pencil so it can be adjusted as needed. "How were your days off?" "what days off?" "You didn't fly for two days, so that was your rest."

Questionable maintenance or inspections never performed but were signed off. "Yeah, I know the ACM is on fire, but could you write it up when you get back to base?"

Falsifying flight times and training records. One operation was busted for doing a PIC check in the airplane, on a date which the airplane was on jacks undergoing a heavy check.

Little or no training program. New hires get a checklist and "three bounces" then told not to touch anything but the radio.

Running a trip as 91 even though it is 135 to circumvent rest rules.


Sent from my Startac using Tapatalk.
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I've experienced all of these things from the Napa based 135 I used to work for.

Including being paired with a pilot who had not reported a DUI. Everyone, including the DO knew and no one told me.

I was also put through a well regarded 135 operators indoc without touching a life raft or any of the things claimed on the write up they gave our customers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Never in aviation has there been a subset allowed to operate the way they do, with so much blatant disregard for rules and regulations, as well as safety like the 135 world has been allowed. If you miss an oil change at a part 91 flight school you are shut down. Kill a bunch of innocent people in a Hawker with two pilots who had no business being in the cockpit, working for a 2 bit POS operator that doctors records? Hmmmm let's blame training contracts....
 
Inverted said:
Never in aviation has there been a subset allowed to operate the way they do, with so much blatant disregard for rules and regulations, as well as safety like the 135 world has been allowed. If you miss an oil change at a part 91 flight school you are shut down. Kill a bunch of innocent people in a Hawker with two pilots who had no business being in the cockpit, working for a 2 bit POS operator that doctors records? Hmmmm let's blame training contracts....
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Could you please link to where you're seeing blame of training contracts. I can't find anything about that and I'm really curious how it's relevant.
 
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