Hawker Down near AKR

[gne in prog]

that video did look like they were near 90° of bank.

 

[amichael]

Now that this thread is back on track, here is the latest update: http://fox8.com/2015/11/12/ntsb-to-provide-update-on-investigation-into-deadly-akron-plane-crash/

"The cockpit voice recorder was recovered on Wednesday and shipped to Washington D.C. for analysis. Dihn-Zarr said fire damaged the outside of the recorder and the tape contains 30 minutes of poor-quality audio.

The crew discussed weather conditions and the sound of impact was recorded.

The NTSB is reviewing maintenance records for the jet, as well as records and certifications for the crew. The pilot have more than 6,000 hours of flight time while the co-pilot had more than 4,500 hours, Dihn-Zarr said."

 

[Toobdrvr]

"The pilot have more than 6,000 hours of flight time while the co-pilot had more than 4,500 hours, Dihn-Zarr said."

That ends that discussion...

 

[Inverted]

It only ends the hour discussion. IMHO it raises more questions than it shuts down.

 

[BobDDuck]

The pilot have more than 6,000 hours of flight time while the co-pilot had more than 4,500 hours, Dihn-Zarr said."

Well....

 

[BobDDuck]

It only ends the hour discussion. IMHO it raises more questions than it shuts down.

Can I ask why you appear to have a vendetta against this operation?

 

[Inverted]

Can I ask why you appear to have a vendetta against this operation?

I made no mention to the operation in my statement. Why did you assume that? How about actual weather, condition of the aircraft, fatigue to start...

 

[Cruise]

Click your heels and say "ALPA, ALPA,ALPA" and he will appear. If you don't say it exactly right @Seggy could arrive first though.

Why do you hate 'Merica?

 

[Vector4Food]

Flight time is a funny metric.

I have about 500 hours in the 330.

I have 600 hours in the 320.

I have vastly more experience and comfort in the 320 because 60% of that time wasn't spent sleeping, eating or typing @Vector4Food racist jokes over CPDLC, it's actually flying the jet.

Technology has improved all of our jobs so much

 

[somewhereupthere]

Okay, I can take one on the chin when need be. Crew had hours.. not the scenario I presented. My bad. I've actually enjoyed some of the things I've read here, and even the bashings have been helpful to come back to more sound logic, that it is in fact unfair to

That said, I would like to proffer this:
PDF File Containing Side Profile of the accident approach.

Please keep in mind that this profile is built using Flightaware track history, which may be inaccurate. As such, you can take this with a grain of salt, and assume this NOT to be the actual flightpath taken by the accident aircraft.

Edited to add this: If one assumes the gross glidepath to be accurate, even remotely, then the distance at which MDA was intercepted to accident site is 0.55nm. If ground speed of the Flightaware track history is accurate, and was constant to the accident site, then this means 15.6 seconds elapsed from MDA interception to the point of the accident site.

 

[derg]

Why do you hate 'Merica?

Because they're free.

You're a bad American.

Next, on the Derg Dergitty Show, NetflixGate and what the democrats want to do to your childrens frozen yogurt.

 

[gne in prog]

Okay, I can take one on the chin when need be. Crew had hours.. not the scenario I presented. My bad. I've actually enjoyed some of the things I've read here, and even the bashings have been helpful to come back to more sound logic, that it is in fact unfair to

That said, I would like to proffer this:
PDF File Containing Side Profile of the accident approach.

Please keep in mind that this profile is built using Flightaware track history, which may be inaccurate. As such, you can take this with a grain of salt, and assume this NOT to be the actual flightpath taken by the accident aircraft.

Edited to add this: If one assumes the gross glidepath to be accurate, even remotely, then the distance at which MDA was intercepted to accident site is 0.55nm. If ground speed of the Flightaware track history is accurate, and was constant to the accident site, then this means 15.6 seconds elapsed from MDA interception to the point of the accident site.

You didn't need to make a graph to prove you don't know what happened.

 

[derg]

typing @Vector4Food racist jokes over CPDLC, it's actually flying the jet.

"A black man, a Jew and two Pollocks walk into a to bar"

"What's so funny? That's what's going to happen in eight more hours…"

 

[T/O w/FSII]

Okay, I can take one on the chin when need be. Crew had hours.. not the scenario I presented. My bad. I've actually enjoyed some of the things I've read here, and even the bashings have been helpful to come back to more sound logic, that it is in fact unfair to

That said, I would like to proffer this:
PDF File Containing Side Profile of the accident approach.

Please keep in mind that this profile is built using Flightaware track history, which may be inaccurate. As such, you can take this with a grain of salt, and assume this NOT to be the actual flightpath taken by the accident aircraft.

Edited to add this: If one assumes the gross glidepath to be accurate, even remotely, then the distance at which MDA was intercepted to accident site is 0.55nm. If ground speed of the Flightaware track history is accurate, and was constant to the accident site, then this means 15.6 seconds elapsed from MDA interception to the point of the accident site.

I literally stopped reading when you said "flightaware"

 

[somewhereupthere]

Some of you guys are good at putting bait in the water, but otherwise have nothing intelligent or substantive to add to the discussion. Others, such as MikeD, have articulated extremely pertinent points. When you can carry on a discussion without constantly being a hater, then chime in. But. Haters gonna hate... Carry on...

 

[///AMG]

Oh snap, math lol. Thanks, didn't notice the fat finger.

I bet said person was a Navy VFA type, and the actual quote was 1 hour, 5000 times

 

[BobDDuck]

I made no mention to the operation in my statement. Why did you assume that? How about actual weather, condition of the aircraft, fatigue to start...

While I certainly agree that weather, mechanical and crew rest issues will certainly come in to play in the investigation that will occur...

Is this another bottom feeder outfit from FXE? Dammit I hate to see this

No judgement on the crew at all, I was aiming more at the operating culture of the company. Gotta wonder how a business jet crashes on an instrument approach though.

I can only hope, that the only saving grace from this, will be that the company gets slaughtered by the FAA and new regulations for crew rest are further enforced. That's if it was a contributing factor in this case.

The hours shouldn't necessarily be in question. The SOPs, and CRM at places like Execuflight and many many others need to be examined. I am not saying anything towards any contributing factors here, but merely commenting on the side discussion of hours and experience. I will also say, that somebody with 5,000 hours, that has spent the last 4,500 hours learning and building bad habits is more dangerous than a low time pilot. A pilot with 1,500, 2,500, 3,500 hours is a very capable pilot with the right skill set. Hours should never be used solely as basis for the ability or experience to fly an airplane. I question the planning, the cockpit operation, communication, standardization, checks and balances, and oversight at these nobody charter outfits. I have worked for those companies and it is downright scary how many close calls, and how sloppy things are when you have high time captains that have spent a career bending rules, overlooking broken items, going below mins and a bunch of other stuff. I can only hope that some action comes out of this accident, no matter what the cause. Whether 24/7 rest finally gets under the microscope, pilot training or anything else that these companies do behind the POI's back.

While I do think there is some of that, I to keep the bigger issue is the company cooking books to make things look pretty. No company is telling their POI that they are illegally holding their crews on call 24/7.

 

[Cptnchia]

Some of you guys are good at putting bait in the water, but otherwise have nothing intelligent or substantive to add to the discussion. Others, such as MikeD, have articulated extremely pertinent points. When you can carry on a discussion without constantly being a hater, then chime in. But. Haters gonna hate... Carry on...

 

[dustoff17]

"A black man, a Jew and two Pollocks walk into a to bar"...…"

Which is ridiculous because one would think that the Jew and Pollocks would have ducked........

 

[Inverted]

I bet said person was a Navy VFA type, and the actual quote was 1 hour, 5000 times

I think I did hear it in VFA-125 when I was there. I changed it a bit but yes 1 hour 5000 times is it.