Sounds like they are screaming at WFO to me. Same engine design as a Lear31, right?
Hawker Down near AKR
- Thread starter ComplexHiAv8r
- Start date
Sounds like they are screaming at WFO to me. Same engine design as a Lear31, right?
AAPalmTree
Well-Known Member
WFO? You're saying the power was up? Sounds like approach power. The plane hit the house next door so I figured it just seemed loud.
D
Deleted member 27505
Guest
UPS crashed on an instrument approach at Birmingham. Not exactly a bottom feeder, although a contractor of some. Seepage?
RIP.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
Rather imagine no one has any idea what happened. Slightly suspect no one ever will. But, hey, super internet-tough on blaming the operator without any *&#$*&$ing notion what happened, whatsoever. There are a lot of companies I'd rather wash dishes than work for, but I guess I'm weird in that I'd maybe wait until the bodies were cold before blindly assigning Blame.
Yeah. WFO man. Pedal to the floor. Sounds like Garrets at T/O power.
Compare
Hear the scream/whine?
I could be wrong, but it sure sounds like Garrets at a high power setting.
Yeah, it's hard to tell.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Ummm... it was recorded as a SNAP CHAT VIDEO. Of course it's hard to tell. This isn't Bell Labs we are talking about.
Like Boris said, lets at least let the bodies cool before we start trying to be acoustic engineers.
Unless of course somebody is an acoustic engineer and then by all means, tell us how there is no way in hell to discern power setting through a snap chat recorded video taken from inside a solid structure 100 feet away.
I'm not trying to lynch the crew here. Just making an observation. I'm not sure how you got that from my post.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I know you aren't trying to lynch the crew (or the operation) as some people are doing. And that's a good thing.
But you are making assumptions/guesses about technical aspects of the crash based on a snap chat video.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
You obviously haven't spent much time with millenials.
somewhereupthere
Well-Known Member
I'm not making any accusations, other than to say I know this operator consistently uses low time/inexperienced FOs paired with captains of about 3000 hour minimums. I could see a possible situation where a captain is having to supervise a low time FO, fly the plane in solid IMC etc, and next thing you know, they're on the backside of the curve. This is an unfortunate event for sure, regardless of the circumstances.
somewhereupthere
Well-Known Member
Last radar hit shows them 0.24NM northeast of AK-LOM at 2,900. Altitude over the AK-LOM as charted is 2,300. The chart for the LOC-25 says the G/P to TCH of 50' is 3.09°.
By my calculations, from that distance and altitude, to achieve 50' TCH, the descent angle would have to be 4.42°
The ground speed on the last radar position shows 127 kts. This would make for a rate of descent of -936 FPM, if my calculations are correct-ish.
3.7 miles from AK to the MAP, plus their 0.24 east of it, makes for a distance to travel of 3.94 NMs to the MAP.
If the weather was at the Cat C straight-in minimums, and if you were on the 3.09° GP from AK, you would break-out and see the runway 1.5 NMs out, at basically 500' above field elevation.
The address where they crashed is 1.74NMs from the end of the runway.
Weather was as follows:
22 minutes before the crash:
SPECI KAKR 101931Z AUTO 25008KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC005 11/09 A2995
RMK AO2 CIG 003V009 T01110094=
1 Minute after the crash:
METAR KAKR 101954Z AUTO 24007KT 1 1/2SM BR BKN004 OVC009
11/09 A2995 RMK AO2 SLP142 T01060094=
The weather was below minimums for the LOC-25 22 minutes before the crash and improved slightly, as in just enough, to make the approach possibly legal, (if ASOS was reporting).
Regardless, from the point of the last radar hit, to the point of impact is a distance of 2.11 NMs. That's 2.11 NMs to lose 1360', to reach MDA, from 2900'. With the ground speed of 127, you would cover that distance in 59 seconds. Let's call it one minute. So one minute to descend from 2900' to ground elevation at crash sight of 1097', that makes for a rate of descent of 1803' FPM.
Without any indicators of navigation equipment malfunction, or other mechanical troubles, I can't help but to come to a conclusion that this crew flew this airplane into the ground attempting an approach which was marginal at best, according to the available weather reports.
CAK is only 7.4NM from AKR and has 4 ILS approaches. The crew should have elected to go into CAK.
RIP to all.
By my calculations, from that distance and altitude, to achieve 50' TCH, the descent angle would have to be 4.42°
The ground speed on the last radar position shows 127 kts. This would make for a rate of descent of -936 FPM, if my calculations are correct-ish.
3.7 miles from AK to the MAP, plus their 0.24 east of it, makes for a distance to travel of 3.94 NMs to the MAP.
If the weather was at the Cat C straight-in minimums, and if you were on the 3.09° GP from AK, you would break-out and see the runway 1.5 NMs out, at basically 500' above field elevation.
The address where they crashed is 1.74NMs from the end of the runway.
Weather was as follows:
22 minutes before the crash:
SPECI KAKR 101931Z AUTO 25008KT 1 1/2SM BR OVC005 11/09 A2995
RMK AO2 CIG 003V009 T01110094=
1 Minute after the crash:
METAR KAKR 101954Z AUTO 24007KT 1 1/2SM BR BKN004 OVC009
11/09 A2995 RMK AO2 SLP142 T01060094=
The weather was below minimums for the LOC-25 22 minutes before the crash and improved slightly, as in just enough, to make the approach possibly legal, (if ASOS was reporting).
Regardless, from the point of the last radar hit, to the point of impact is a distance of 2.11 NMs. That's 2.11 NMs to lose 1360', to reach MDA, from 2900'. With the ground speed of 127, you would cover that distance in 59 seconds. Let's call it one minute. So one minute to descend from 2900' to ground elevation at crash sight of 1097', that makes for a rate of descent of 1803' FPM.
Without any indicators of navigation equipment malfunction, or other mechanical troubles, I can't help but to come to a conclusion that this crew flew this airplane into the ground attempting an approach which was marginal at best, according to the available weather reports.
CAK is only 7.4NM from AKR and has 4 ILS approaches. The crew should have elected to go into CAK.
RIP to all.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
Can you do the same analysis for the flight school plane that landed 1 minute before the accident aircraft please.
obx
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you've solved it. Do you divert when the wx at your destination is above minimums, just to have an ILS? That's what you propose this crew should have done--to prevent this crash. I'm ignorant on 135, but in the 121 world, the visibility is controlling, not the ceiling. So both of those METARs would have made the LOC to 25 a perfectly legal approach.
averettpilot
Well-Known Member
Good grief. If you have more to say than RIP keep it to yourself and wait for the actual investigation.