Hawker Down near AKR

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Just get a type rating and go fly a jet single pilot. Sorry, but dealing with an engine failure, flying the airplane, running checklists, talking to ATC, in a jet aircraft moving at jet speeds is not something that can be effectively (and even safely) managed by a single person. That is too much going on in a small span of time.
Click to expand...

Woah there, Mav. The Mustang stalls at like 70 knots, and ref is less than 100, IMS. Er, also, what does any of this have to do with the title of this thread?
 
ppragman said:
Are people (really a person) in this thread really suggesting that a localizer approach to minimums is unsafe? Jesus, I'd hate to have to justify some of the approaches I've flown to them over my career. What are your thoughts on NDB approaches to minimums? Or EGADS! An LDA? I don't even want to get started on all the circling approaches to minimums I've flown...
Click to expand...


NDB approaches?

You guys are dangerous :D
 
Boris Badenov said:
So one of them can yell "go, go, go" while they drive through a fence??? *confused*
Click to expand...

No, after the tire rupture the CA didn't immediately state intention. The FO stated, "go, go, go" I believe twice. The CA stated, "go?" as in asking the FO if that was the suggestion. By this time the indecisiveness of the CA put the airplane above V1. Takeoff was finally aborted at above rotation speed.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Oh, so THAT'S why airlines have two pilots in jet aircraft.
Click to expand...

Point being two sets of eyes watching and backing up each other using industry-standard SOPs in a CRM-friendly environment in which merit-based system is not in the back of pilot minds when it comes to operational decisions.

I don't know what Execuflight is but a quick APC check on them shows to be not viewed in a good way.


But back to the main thread, RIP to those who perished and hopefully the investigators can figure this one out quickly and bring closure for families.
 
Inverted said:
Ugh. You think QBing in here is bad. Now there's blury potato footage of the crash, and somebody with a MacBook analyzed it.

http://fox8.com/2015/11/11/exclusive-video/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
A Macbook?! I thought only the NTSB was allowed to use that kind of technology, not some attorney named Dick. But I sure liked learning that "as the speed dropped, the controlability of the aircraft dropped." Did Siri figure that out? ...Damn, how does she know the airplane was slow? Amazing technology... Does providing that kind of insight make the computer an awesome tool, or the user an awesome tool?
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Point being two sets of eyes watching and backing up each other using industry-standard SOPs in a CRM-friendly environment in which merit-based system is not in the back of pilot minds when it comes to operational decisions.

I don't know what Execuflight is but a quick APC check on them shows to be not viewed in a good way.


But back to the main thread, RIP to those who perished and hopefully the investigators can figure this one out quickly and bring closure for families.
Click to expand...
Have you ever sat in a mustang? There's more switches on a new 172.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
No, after the tire rupture the CA didn't immediately state intention. The FO stated, "go, go, go" I believe twice. The CA stated, "go?" as in asking the FO if that was the suggestion. By this time the indecisiveness of the CA put the airplane above V1. Takeoff was finally aborted at above rotation speed.
Click to expand...
No. The plane was already past V1 when that ... er... captain stuttered her indecisive query. If she had just launched, it would likely have been a whole different deal. Or if she had just aborted (even at +V1) it would likely have been a whole different deal. Either way, do one thing or the other most ricki tick. Hesitation in this kind of situation rarely ends in a good result. That's why we brief what we are going to do every single time. Unfortunately, the captain botched the brief which may be telling.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Ridiculous the FAA has signed off on single pilot jet type ratings for multi-engine jets like Cessna Mustangs and Embraer Phenoms. Unreal. And no prior jet experience requirement. Just get a type rating and go fly a jet single pilot. Sorry, but dealing with an engine failure, flying the airplane, running checklists, talking to ATC, in a jet aircraft moving at jet speeds is not something that can be effectively (and even safely) managed by a single person. That is too much going on in a small span of time.

Not saying what happened was an engine failure, but that Maryland crash looks to be speed dropping off followed by stall in a turn to final according to some avionics recorder on the plane that was recovered. I can imagine the scenario, the pilot looking out the window trying to find the runway, no eyes on the airspeed. A second set of eyes can catch something like this in time to correct it.

There's a reason airlines have two pilots in jet aircraft.
Click to expand...

Well...no. There are a lot of standards for how these things are certified - also it's worth noting that these things have pretty low stall speeds and pretty low, in fact the Phenom 300 stalls and VMCs only about 10 KIAS faster than the C90 and only a few knots faster than the 1900 - which was certified single pilot. If anything, the smaller "single pilot jets" like the mustang are even more docile - hell, the Mustang has a stall speed of 73 knots CALIBRATED! That's a whopping 12 knots faster than the Caravan.

If you want to compare airplanes - consider this. The PA31-350, "Navajo Chieftain" has a stall speed in the landing configuration of 74KCAS at 7,000lbs. That's higher than the Mustang... By your logic we should have two pilots in a Navajo because engine failure, flying the airplane, running checklists, and talking to ATC is just too tough.
 
Boris Badenov said:
Woah there, Mav. The Mustang stalls at like 70 knots, and ref is less than 100, IMS. Er, also, what does any of this have to do with the title of this thread?
Click to expand...

92125-thats-right-ice-man-gif-Tom-Cr-JALd.gif
 
ppragman said:
I mean, if were going to speculate, the most likely thing is probably mode confusion or simply being unaware of which mode was in use. If the A/P didn't capture MDA for whatever reason (someone with experience in this airplane can comment, but perhaps alt-capture or whatever it is called in this particular avionics package wasn't armed or available) and the airplane was tracking the localizer and simply descended right into the ground.

Or maybe it did capture, but they didn't push the power up at MDA and they stalled it. Or maybe, they were getting ice and didn't use enough power, or maybe they lost control during the transition to visual, the list goes on and on - we don't know yet. My money is on the autopilot not capturing the altitude, or it being set up wrong.

Frankly, I'm fine with speculation - if I auger in, speculate about everything, if it gets you thinking about safety and possible failure modes, then maybe I didn't make a crater in vain. Still, if you're going to speculate, at least speculate on what is likely. I mean, while it's likely that Execuflight is the typical FL charter company, it's silly to say that the reason they crashed is simply because "sketchy company." If anything, that's intellectually dishonest about what causes accidents. Sketchy company is just one layer of "swiss-cheese" or just one "link in the chain" on the way to the scene of the accident. Just my $1.05
Click to expand...
Yeah seems like there has got to be something else going on. Say it was an average CFIT where they didn't capture an MDA and flew it controlled into the ground, it would seem that in flat terrain (I assume its flat) and with the ceiling as high as 500' there would at least be enough time to initiate a go around, which doesn't seem to have happened here looking at the video.or if they did, the GA was botched. Very sad.
 
z987k said:
Have you ever sat in a mustang? There's more switches on a new 172.
Click to expand...

I did my G1000 training for our Caravans in a Mustang FTD at Flight Safety. I was amazed at how user-friendly and simple the layout was. For a jet, the Mustang seems to be a pretty forgiving single pilot platform.
 
984226-ShaheenairlineMalikShafiqExpress-1446534839-437-640x480.jpg


Since we're talking about two pilot aircraft.

Three items caught my attention in the article.
  • The report mentioned that the pilot could not maintain the balance of the aircraft and also ignored the advice of his co-pilot, reported Dunya News.
  • The investigation also showed that the pilot ignored his co-pilot’s advice and despite high speed he landed the aircraft instead of slowing it down before the landing.
  • The report said that the aircraft can not be used again
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2015/11/boeing-737-4h6-shaheen-air-ap-bjo.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top