Hawaiian TA Summary

The important part

Scope:

Feeder Carrier – Allow Company to acquire or code share with turboprop (up to 69 seats – Dash 8/ATR 42 or equivalent) passenger operator within the Hawaiian Islands but not through Honolulu.

Restrictions include a minimum number of 717 hours needed to be flown, and no furlough or downgrade due to feeder operation. Feeder allows for 717s to be freed up to fly more lucrative main-line operations.

Feeder also provides feed to OGG -- mainland flights, providing stability and potential growth in those markets.

Co. given ability to establish/operate ATR’s in pure cargo operation (including HNL).
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The HNL restriction may actually protect them. There is a whole lot of inter island flying done on the 717 but if they can't feed into HNL it mostly defeats the purpose.
 
I like the 12 year pay scale. Guys here were ADAMANT about stretching it out to 18 years because they thought they got more money that way. What they didn't realize is the money is essentially the same, it just takes you 3 more years to get there than with a 15 year scale. A 12 year scale is even better.

How is AirTran looking at those 717 rates? First year FO is more at AirTran, but second year rate at Hawaiian is about the same as 5th year FO. Looks to me like Hawaiian gave you guys a good start when it comes to comparing to similiar equipment.
 
BobDDuck said:
The HNL restriction may actually protect them. There is a whole lot of inter island flying done on the 717 but if they can't feed into HNL it mostly defeats the purpose.
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I was looking at that, too. Be like Delta running their feeder operations from SAV-TLH or something similar. Works for certain city pairs, but not the whole operation. They also tied the feeder ops to 717 HOURS rather than airframes.
 
Looks pretty impressive from the outside looking good. It will be good for the industry as a whole hoepfully moving forward.....
 
I'm still floored that they consider staying at the company for 10 years or retiring at 65 in order to get retiree medical coverage a "concession." What was it before? My thought was "Hell, only work there 10 years and get medical?"
 
Eh, it was probably 10 years or age 60.

Overall not too bad. Thats something solid that CAL and others can say lookie here, you are going to at least have to match this.
 
kellwolf said:
How is AirTran looking at those 717 rates? First year FO is more at AirTran, but second year rate at Hawaiian is about the same as 5th year FO. Looks to me like Hawaiian gave you guys a good start when it comes to comparing to similiar equipment.
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Yep, definitely a boost for us. We'll expect rates to be a little bit higher because we use a blended rate for both the 717 and 737, but this definitely helps us out.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Yep, definitely a boost for us. We'll expect rates to be a little bit higher because we use a blended rate for both the 717 and 737, but this definitely helps us out.
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FYI, I'm watching your contract negotiations with a lot more than just a spectator's interest. AirTran's in my top 5, and it'd be very nice to see nice things come about over there.
 
kellwolf said:
FYI, I'm watching your contract negotiations with a lot more than just a spectator's interest. AirTran's in my top 5, and it'd be very nice to see nice things come about over there.
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You should get your app in as soon as the window opens. Competition is going to be tough, and you can be pretty sure that we'll have a contract by Summer with big improvements.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
You should get your app in as soon as the window opens. Competition is going to be tough, and you can be pretty sure that we'll have a contract by Summer with big improvements.
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I'm already watching like a hawk. Any heads up on when the window is gonna open? They'll probably get blasted with apps within the first couple of hours.
 
kellwolf said:
I'm already watching like a hawk. Any heads up on when the window is gonna open? They'll probably get blasted with apps within the first couple of hours.
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Probably January, but I'll make sure to give you a heads up as soon as I hear the exact date. They're using a new points-based system, so it will probably be a complicated application like the AirlineApps thingy that can score your application.
 
Not bad at all!

My only complaint is that it doesn't have COLA increase beyond the amendable date.

I can't stand that no one puts that in contracts!
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
Not bad at all!

My only complaint is that it doesn't have COLA increase beyond the amendable date.

I can't stand that no one puts that in contracts!
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That's by design. COLA raises beyond the amendable date eliminate the incentive to get a deal done. The pilots are continuing to get pay raises, so they don't get mad and demand a new contract, and the company can continue to go to bankers and investors and show that they have known costs going forward without any pressure to settle a new deal, so they have no reason to work to finish the deal either. In the end, you'll end up with negotiations going far longer than normal, and although you'll still be getting COLA raises, none of the other problems in your contract are getting fixed.

I support small raises (1% or so) to reduce the need to negotiate big retro checks, but I don't support full COLA after the amendable date. I like having the pressure on both sides to complete a deal.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
That's by design. COLA raises beyond the amendable date eliminate the incentive to get a deal done. The pilots are continuing to get pay raises, so they don't get mad and demand a new contract, and the company can continue to go to bankers and investors and show that they have known costs going forward without any pressure to settle a new deal, so they have no reason to work to finish the deal either. In the end, you'll end up with negotiations going far longer than normal, and although you'll still be getting COLA raises, none of the other problems in your contract are getting fixed.

I support small raises (1% or so) to reduce the need to negotiate big retro checks, but I don't support full COLA after the amendable date. I like having the pressure on both sides to complete a deal.
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I like the COLA, but set it below what inflation is. We all know pilot will moan and complain about getting shorted a dime an hour, so make them think they're taking a pay cut on inflation, and they'll go for a deal. The flip side is what we have at Pinnacle now: no motivation for the company to get a deal. They're dealing with wages negotiated a decade ago. If I were management, I wouldn't be in a hurry to get a deal done either.
 
What were the payrates on AirTran's last TA that did not pass? Are you guys looking to have your rates near these new HAL rates or something like the Alaska rates?
 
OCflyguy88 said:
What were the payrates on AirTran's last TA that did not pass? Are you guys looking to have your rates near these new HAL rates or something like the Alaska rates?
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The pay rates at max longevity in the original TA weren't bad, but the rates for junior and mid-seniority pilots weren't that good. We're expecting something in the Alaska range for our next TA.
 
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