Have you ever received a "letter of warning"?

[SpiceWeasel]

Pinnacle hands them out like candy. In fact, we just got a packet (I hate to call it a memo since it was like 10 pages) recently reminding us of all the disciplinary dealings for MT, lates, call in honests, absences, etc. Reading it again I was thinking "I'm working here WHY?" There are numerous instances where the company can "at their discretion" accelerate the discipline up to and including termination. Don't be late twice in twelve months to the point they have to remove your first leg. You can get fired for it. Seriously.

I got a letter in my box for calling in sick three times.....in nearly 3 years. The letter doesn't go in my personnel file, but flight ops keeps it for "tracking purposes." If I call in sick between now and the end of December, then I get a written letter of warning. I hate to keep referring to Disney, but you could call in sick there 12 times in a rolling 12 month period before getting any kind of discipline. It was 3 in 30 days, 9 in 90 days and 12 in 12 months. Here, it's 4 in 12 months.

On fatigue, if they deem that you call in a couple of times fatigued and they deem that it's not valid, you can be sent in for a "fitness for duty" examination. Also, now Crew Scheduling can code calling in sick after vacation or after trying to drop or swap a trip as a MT. Yeah, not a "sick call" but a MT. So, don't try to drop a day then actually be sick that day.

Sorry, I'm a little spun up about the BS policies that go around over here. And they wonder why 99% of us voted to tell them to shove it.

I know this is the wrong place for it but since you're a NineE'r I figured I'd bounce my op of your post. I'd like to see language in our next contract that prevents the company from creating disciplinary policies without a union meeting. It needs to be agreed upon in the contract. IE our contract needs a "91.13" type provision in it that the company CANNOT just put anything out there without negotiating... a catchall. And howabout making sickdays into "flex days" where we can use them at our discretion without threat of discipline. If I want to pad vacation, then I'm allowed, but if I call in sick later, and have no sick time, then I lose pay. That seems fair.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

He called and when I picked up he stated that he was the assistant chief etc... and asked if I had a couple seconds. I said sure but just a couple as we just got cleared to position and hold. He flipped out for a few seconds until he realized I was kidding.

Whut whut!

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I never understood how sick calls can be an occurence. If you're sick you're sick.

 

[CaptBill]

I never understood how sick calls can be an occurence. If you're sick you're sick.

If you are threatened with discipline for calling in sick, next time you are sick call the local TV or newspaper reporter and tell them you are a pilot for ABC airlines. You are presently heading for the airport to fly your trip. Explain that you are sick and shouldn't be flying but don't have the option to call in sick due to the fact that you will be disciplined for doing so. Give them the name and number of your Chief Pilot for any follow up questions.

 

[kellwolf]

I know this is the wrong place for it but since you're a NineE'r I figured I'd bounce my op of your post. I'd like to see language in our next contract that prevents the company from creating disciplinary policies without a union meeting. It needs to be agreed upon in the contract. IE our contract needs a "91.13" type provision in it that the company CANNOT just put anything out there without negotiating... a catchall. And howabout making sickdays into "flex days" where we can use them at our discretion without threat of discipline. If I want to pad vacation, then I'm allowed, but if I call in sick later, and have no sick time, then I lose pay. That seems fair.

Agree totally. Sometimes you're not sick and you need to get something taken care of. Like your car breaks down or something. Well, the mechanic isn't gonna give me a doctor's note for that. And there have been way too many changes in policy for my taste with absolutely no regard for the people their affecting. It's pretty obvious the policies are being written by bean counters in an ivory tower that don't even have a clue how things work.

 

[OldTownPilot]

It's a "worker reliability program", not punishment for sick calls

 

[SoCalAprch]

I never understood how sick calls can be an occurence. If you're sick you're sick.

Not that I agree with the occurrence thing but the company's viewpoint is that if you are going to be sick 8 times in a year you probably aren't fit to be a pilot.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Not that I agree with the occurrence thing but the company's viewpoint is that if you are going to be sick 8 times in a year you probably aren't fit to be a pilot.

That's a decision for the pilot's AME to make, not some pencil-pushing pinhead in a flight ops management position.

 

[SteveC]

That's a decision for the pilot's AME to make, not some pencil-pushing pinhead in a flight ops management position.

How would an AME know a pilot called in sick eight times?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

How would an AME know a pilot called in sick eight times?

If a pilot passes his medical, then he's fit to be a pilot. It doesn't matter how many times he has called in sick.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Not that I agree with the occurrence thing but the company's viewpoint is that if you are going to be sick 8 times in a year you probably aren't fit to be a pilot.

Per my contract they are able to ask me to see an AME (of my choice) if they wish to pay for it for an evaluation of my medical fitness -- this should be their only recourse. Having administrative disciplinary actions attached to whether or not you call in sick is code word for 'we don't care if you're sick, still fly.' Even if you haven't received a warning yet it still applies to you -- I have had 3 sick days this year -- does that mean that if I want to be a check airman later on I should not call in a fourth time and therefore have the CP call me about it?

 

[SteveC]

Not that I agree with the occurrence thing but the company's viewpoint is that if you are going to be sick 8 times in a year you probably aren't fit to be a pilot.

That's a decision for the pilot's AME to make, not some pencil-pushing pinhead in a flight ops management position.

How would an AME know a pilot called in sick eight times?

If a pilot passes his medical, then he's fit to be a pilot. It doesn't matter how many times he has called in sick.

I suppose the definition of "fit to be a pilot" might mean something other than physical well-being.

 

[TheShortOne]

for example, someone I know was sick several times throughout his first year at a regional due to all the germs flying around on those things complicated by a previous condition (reported and ok with the AME). This person had doc notes for every time he was sick, but was still given crap about the number of sick calls he had when his year review came up. If he had had one more, there would have been a letter/disciplinary action taken against him (at which point I'm sure ALPA would have stepped in)

 

[kellwolf]

Having administrative disciplinary actions attached to whether or not you call in sick is code word for 'we don't care if you're sick, still fly.'

And, that, is the key. Sick calls cost the company money. The more sick calls, the lower the profit margins. So, they do what they can to convince people to not call in sick.....even if it means FLYING sick. I know a lot of people here that have flown sick and said "Well, if I call in sick one more time, I get disciplined." Tough. The FAA says not to fly sick. If the company wants to discipline you for following the FARs, then the FAA needs to get involved. It's a constant fight here. I'd think calling in 6 times within a year is more than reasonable given the environment we operate in and the proximity to germs. However, the ivory tower pencil pushers at the company say 4 times means you're get a written letter, 5 is another written, and 6 means you can get the axe. That's crazy. Now they're giving away plasma TVs in an employee incentive program. So, we've got guys saying "If I call in sick, I won't get the plasma." If I hear an FO say that and he doesn't need to be flying, guess who's making a call to remove him from the flight.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

And, that, is the key. Sick calls cost the company money. The more sick calls, the lower the profit margins. So, they do what they can to convince people to not call in sick.....even if it means FLYING sick. I know a lot of people here that have flown sick and said "Well, if I call in sick one more time, I get disciplined." Tough. The FAA says not to fly sick. If the company wants to discipline you for following the FARs, then the FAA needs to get involved. It's a constant fight here. I'd think calling in 6 times within a year is more than reasonable given the environment we operate in and the proximity to germs. However, the ivory tower pencil pushers at the company say 4 times means you're get a written letter, 5 is another written, and 6 means you can get the axe. That's crazy. Now they're giving away plasma TVs in an employee incentive program. So, we've got guys saying "If I call in sick, I won't get the plasma." If I hear an FO say that and he doesn't need to be flying, guess who's making a call to remove him from the flight.

Hopefully after you smack him. That way you can also say he has a bloody nose

 

[OldTownPilot]

On the lines with the plasma TVs, CAL would give away 7 Ford Explorers every 6 months to employees with perfect attendance.

 

[Qgar]

On the lines with the plasma TVs, CAL would give away 7 Ford Explorers every 6 months to employees with perfect attendance.

Are you joking? Damn, I'm working for the wrong airline....I hit my one year mark in 2 weeks, and haven't been sick, late or anything else!

 

[jtrain609]

If you are threatened with discipline for calling in sick, next time you are sick call the local TV or newspaper reporter and tell them you are a pilot for ABC airlines. You are presently heading for the airport to fly your trip. Explain that you are sick and shouldn't be flying but don't have the option to call in sick due to the fact that you will be disciplined for doing so. Give them the name and number of your Chief Pilot for any follow up questions.

I had 5 sick occurrences my first year. What can I say, I was sick, I even had doctors notes for every single occurrence. At one point the company threatened to extend my probationary period, which never happened. Now to be honest, the chiefs were good guys to work with and I never expected any problems from them because they understood, people got sick.

But I figured if the company wanted to really press the issue, I wouldn't just bring the union to the meeting; I'd bring the union, the company's POI and the New York Times. That'd make for an interesting meeting.

 

[CaptBill]

Here is something else to consider. The present system (at least at CAL) does not encourage you not to call in sick. You accumulate 5 hours per month in your sick bank that can be drawn upon to pay you for a trip you call in sick for. When you retire NONE of this accumulated sick bank is redeemable for squat. I have seen guys retire with 1000 hours of sick bank and it goes to zero the day they retire. Yes, the company gives away a few cars here and there for perfect attendance but the likelihood is slim your name will be drawn out of 40,000 plus employees.

Why not establish a system where every December you can redeem a portion of your unused sick bank for cash? If you accumulate 60 hours per year, why not allow employees to sell back 20 or 25 hours to help pay for Christmas? A little end of the year bonus if you will. I know pilots who call in sick for a trip every few months and never accumulate any sick leave. They see it as as getting paid and getting time off (that's pretty good incentive if you ask me). As a company you wouldn't want to buy back 100 percent of unused sick time because that would encourage some to fly sick in order to preserve those hours. Would it not be reasonable of a company to think that an employee may use 20, 30 or maybe 40 hours of sick leave a year so let's offer to buy back 20 or 25 to encourage them to come to work?

I have always found that people, including pilots, tend to go in directions that seem the most beneficial to them. Just an idea.....

 

[OldTownPilot]

I though my dad said that the sick bank can now be redeemed for COBRA medical with the last contract?


Edit: Oh yeah, with age 65 there is now no need for bridge medical. doh.:banghead:

 

[kellwolf]

Or after 2 years, give you the option to cash out sick time you've got from the previous 24 months or add it on to vacation. Last place I worked allowed you to cash out sick time that had been sitting in the sick bank for 2 years. Now, it's "use it or lose it." The way things are going, I don't see a reason why EVERY pilot at Pinnacle shouldn't call in 3 times a year. That's the limit to discipline, and you're gonna lose the sick time anyway. Just make sure you don't call in on Super Bowl Sunday, a holiday or any other day management is expecting a high volume of "unplanned absences." They tend to shoot out memos arbitrarily saying "If you call in sick on XX day, you need a doctor's not no exceptions."

IMO, since they're requiring it, go see an out of network doc and charge it to 'em.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Or after 2 years, give you the option to cash out sick time you've got from the previous 24 months or add it on to vacation. Last place I worked allowed you to cash out sick time that had been sitting in the sick bank for 2 years. Now, it's "use it or lose it." The way things are going, I don't see a reason why EVERY pilot at Pinnacle shouldn't call in 3 times a year. That's the limit to discipline, and you're gonna lose the sick time anyway. Just make sure you don't call in on Super Bowl Sunday, a holiday or any other day management is expecting a high volume of "unplanned absences." They tend to shoot out memos arbitrarily saying "If you call in sick on XX day, you need a doctor's not no exceptions."

IMO, since they're requiring it, go see an out of network doc and charge it to 'em.

I like to save the gems in CT:

From: SG
Sent: <time> Priority: High
To: <all of us>
Subject: Labor Day Reminder

As a reminder

If you call in sick before, on or after Labor Day you will be required to have a Dr's note.

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact your local Flt Ops.

Thank you

and this has to be a personal favorite:

From: LW
Sent: <time> Priority: High
To: <me>
Subject: FOM
Please pick up your Revision 4 to the FOM ASAP!!!!

I had been in Atlanta already over a month and GA had issued and I signed for FOM 4. hahaha