Harsh treatment? What do you think???

I'm sorry but as everyone else has said, your guy is on the hook for this. He should have owned up to it. Owning it might have saved his job, instead he ignored the one thing everyone knows: The best fuel gauge you have is your watch and fuel gauges should NEVER be trusted. The CFI is always responsible, thats why we get paid the big bucks!:sarcasm:
 
As a flight school owner, we've invited clients to go elsewhere for lying to us and failing to take responsibility for their actions. We've kept clients, even after aircraft damage, due to their owning up to the situation, learning from it, and not repeating it. We can work with clients that want to learn.

For flight instructors, it is a much less tolerant stance. We expect our flight instructors to be a cut above our clients. Our clients trust their lives to the instructors and the liability should an instructor screw up is unimaginable. Even if the school does everything right, and it is an instructor screw-up, the school can lose their insurance and be out of business. Worse, flight instructors "breed" their mistakes, producing generations of pilots with the same problems. Thus if an incident results in the instructor trying to do anything other than take full responsibility for the situation, they're gone. If the incident is egregious enough, a detailed report of our investigation will be sent to the FAA due to the "failure to warn" aspect of liability cases.

In nine years of doing this, I've only sent one letter regarding an instructor that had an engine failure on takeoff due to fuel starvation. Only because the pilot-undergoing-instruction was better skilled than his instructor did this avoid tragedy. The instructor raged on and on about how it was everyone else's fault, including Piper, that he ran out of fuel. The FAA conducted the pilot-undergoing-instruction's checkride but did not pursue enforcement action. The instructor would go on to lose his certificates after causing an accident with a different flight school.
 
Certainly appreciate the replies. There was a lot more to it that I didn't take into consideration. This is certainly an eye opener for younger pilots such as myself. Thank you and God speed...

YP
 
Your buddy messed up. Shouldn't he have known how much fuel they had after visual inspecting the tanks AND if there was any doubt in the quantity why didn't he just top it off?
 
That was his fault. I don't really understand how he checked the tanks but still ran that low. Sorry, but it's not rocket science, you either know you have enough, or you know you don't have enough. When you check the fuel, you CHECK THE FUEL, you don't guesstimate.

Now, if they could have kept this private(even from the probably somewhat oblivious student) and he took responsibility and really talked to the CP, then that's one thing. Since he said it wasn't his fault and probably didn't check the fuel, I can see why he got canned. Last week while pulling a 172 out of our hangar I cracked the left HS tail cap on the wall.(Don't worry, it's still flyable!) What did I do? I picked up the pieces and went straight into the bosses office. Was he mad? Heck yes! Did I get a stern talking to? You bet I did, but I also got complimented on usually being very careful and vigilant, and he was thankful that I owned up to it right away. Now I know I didn't almost run a plane out of fuel, but there is a lot to be said about owning up to stuff.

It definately sucks that one mistake like that can be a big ugly asterisk on your record, but you can't exactly pull over on the side of the road if you run out of gas, and the flight school doesn't want something like that on their record. The potential word on the street is that "XXXXXXX Aviation has bad instructors." That doesn't look good for the school.

You're buddy may be a hell of an instructor, but he did something that we are trained not to do from day 1.
 
I think i know who this. is. If not this is a very strikingly similar story to what happened to a great guy I worked with.

if it is who i am thinking of, I hope he is having a good break back home in the islands...

It really made me sad when this guy was let go...All around great guy. But great guy or not, safety comes first. It has to and it's not always easy. Believe me, it really pained to the Chief Pilot to let him go, but alas safety and integrity of the program first.

Also, know keep in mind that there are things that students and even the other instructors don't know about. I would be bet a lot of my own money that there were some other judgment calls that jeopardized safety. So it wasn't just the low fuel thing. That just happens to be the one you saw. In this case you have to trust the Chief pilot knows what he is doing. He has been at it a long time.

Again he is a great guy and i call him friend, but he did make a mistake and must suffer the consequences of it. I bet this is one pilot who will NEVER run out of fuel though...

Man I ready to get back to Dead Rat

PS Chief gave gave him the option of resigning so as not to crud up his resume.
 
Is that the place over by the holiday in? If so there use to be a REAL crappy restaurant there called Bandanna's back in the day. Oh man they were awful. I guess since this place went in where they were I've scared to go back.
 
Sure is! I remember Bandanas. That was there my Freshman year, I don't remember when it was torn down, but El Tap is amazing.
 
What letter and who did you send it to and why?

A letter I wrote, I sent to the local FSDO, after significant consultation with our school's legal team. As stated previously, it was due to our internal investigation and the instructor's actions and behaviors after he nearly totaled an aircraft, plus the instructor's past actions and behaviors which included a few trips through the FAA's Remedial Training Program. Not mentioned previously was that the instructor also sent a detailed letter to the same FSDO which alleged multiple wrong-doings by Piper, ATC, our flight school, our flight school mechanics, his own student, and several other entities before he advised us of the incident. IIRC, Scientology was also named. We were already aware of the event due to ATC calling us.

Such an action is not to be taken lightly, nor is it something to hesitate on for too long as the next time, the instructor may be out of luck and you've lost your business and are now spending all of your time as a defendant in a wrongful death lawsuit.
 
The FAA didn't press charges on your internal investigation?

I don't know,
sounds too bad to be true, I would have to hear his side.
I don't really care to hear his side.

I am curious though, on how he ran out of fuel on takeoff. Was it the first take-off of the flight?
and secondly, you guys have a legal team? spendy.
 
The FAA didn't press charges on your internal investigation?

I don't know,
sounds too bad to be true, I would have to hear his side.
I don't really care to hear his side.

I am curious though, on how he ran out of fuel on takeoff. Was it the first take-off of the flight?
and secondly, you guys have a legal team? spendy.

Good legal representation is needed in the aviation world.
 
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