Had to report two to the FSDO

[ColoradoPilot]

Nah. Fifteen-ish years of running an Internet website, I have been threatened with lawsuits, hate mail, bombastic posts, nuclear annihilation, i don't know, I've pretty much seen/heard/read it all. So nothing really fazes me anymore.

I've had rationale, calm one-sided email exchanges with people who have called my mother every name in the book ("ok, so you really don't understand why your behavior wasn't compatible with my website?").

Words on the Internet.

"I'm going to sue you!"

"Cool, have your attorney, well AFTER you can find one, he takes the case and well, you pay the retainer, have him send a proper letter on PAPER to PO box...."

I've had that conversation maybe.... Let me think... Since 1996... Maybe 14 times?

What's the reasoning for the anger? Banning? Other stuff?

 

[MikeD]

It is crap and of course, I wouldn't like it. In regards to the OP, see I_Money's post for my attitude on this situation, which is vastly difference than Doug's.

I agree with you. Again (referring to the new argument here, not the OPs situation here....he explained his position), of course if there's some person flying drunk, doing obvious unsafe acts, etc, I fully agree that we should do something about it or report it. It's the poster here who advocated the whole "report anything real or perceived", when many people's perceptions of something may not be what was going on (Doug's examples), that cause unnecessary ass pain for people. I wouldn't want to get reported for stupid stuff that someone *thought* was a problem (GA pilot complaining about airline crew not doing a GUMP check, for example), when they don't even know any better. It's those types of BS situations I'm talking about and criticizing, that people shouldn't be so quick to go after someone for. What I'm saying is, people need to get the facts about something before they go running to the authorities.

As for the OP and based his further comments, it appears he was put in an impossible position by his employer.

 

[SteveC]

My examples, as I've stated numerous times already if you were paying attention, are of an argument part and parcel from the OP. This isn't about the OPs situation anymore.

This is about the whole "report any violations real or perceived" to the FAA, that started about back on Page 6 or so. Dougs arguments are examples of when people's "perceptions", which btw aren't based on any factual reality, get reported and he had to answer to someone else's BS perceptions. USMCmech's argument is pretty good gospel to follow.

Straw man argument neither are. Now that I've cleared that up yet again, do you wish to respond to the whole "preception is reality" crap, and how you would feel if it were YOU on the receiving end of it? Neither of which you have answered, just danced around.

Question: Are there people who have posted as to being "...in support of reporting everything you see, real or perceived, to the FAA..." ?

My apologies for not fully reviewing the thread to locate same, but I'm wondering who, exactly, you're asking your questions of? Maybe you're not getting responses because there's no one that thinks of themselves being in that catagory?

 

[derg]

What's the reasoning for the anger? Banning? Other stuff?

Generally, elevated self opinions, narcissism, ego and the "anonymous" nature of the Internet.

People say things to one another every day online that they'd never dream of saying in person.

 

[MikeD]

Question: Are there people who have posted as to being "...in support of reporting everything you see, real or perceived, to the FAA..." ?

My apologies for not fully reviewing the thread to locate same, but I'm wondering who, exactly, you're asking your questions of? Maybe you're not getting responses because there's no one that thinks of themselves being in that catagory?

I'm not arguing out of thin air.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/1550366-post130.html

 

[MikeD]

Generally, elevated self opinions, narcissism, ego and the "anonymous" nature of the Internet.

People say things to one another every day online that they'd never dream of saying in person.

"Hey, can you move, we're trying to watch the game"......

 

[darthpanda]

Nah. Fifteen-ish years of running an Internet website, I have been threatened with lawsuits, hate mail, bombastic posts, nuclear annihilation, i don't know, I've pretty much seen/heard/read it all. So nothing really fazes me anymore.

I've had rational, calm email exchanges with people who have called my mother every name in the book ("ok, so you really don't understand why your behavior wasn't compatible with my website?").

Words on the Internet.

"I'm going to sue you!"

"Cool, have your attorney, well AFTER you can find one, he takes the case and well, you pay the retainer, have him send a proper letter on PAPER to PO box...."

I've had that conversation maybe.... Let me think... Since 1996... Maybe 14 times?

This is the last straw. You'll be hearing from my attorney.


Nuclear annihilation :rotfl:

 

[MikeD]

I've had rational, calm email exchanges with people who have called my mother every name in the book ("ok, so you really don't understand why your behavior wasn't compatible with my website?").

Mom
Money
Woman.

Don't mess with.

It's really that simple.

 

[zmiller4]

I'm not arguing out of thin air.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/1550366-post130.html

That's one guy...I think that's the exception. I'm definitely not (and I doubt anyone other than the person you quoted is) part of the "report everything you see" crowd, and I don't think one exists.

That being said, if someone landed on my land in an unbelievably clear violation of FAR's and then took absolutely no responsibility for their actions, I would not be opposed to reporting them.

 

[Clocks]

That's one guy...I think that's the exception. I'm definitely not (and I doubt anyone other than the person you quoted is) part of the "report everything you see" crowd, and I don't think one exists.

That being said, if someone landed on my land in an unbelievably clear violation of FAR's and then took absolutely no responsibility for their actions, I would not be opposed to reporting them.

I think it would have been more amusing to refuse them permission to take off after they issued the OP that line of BS about scouting emergency landing fields. Park your truck in the middle of the hiking trail they landed on and let them know how to call for a ferry to pick them up. For the folks who wouldn't report anything, you wouldn't need to call the FSDO to teach them a lesson about landing on closed private runways.

And I honestly *would* refuse someone permission to take off from my land. I don't care how much it costs them to truck their plane home, I don't want their family suing me when they smash into the trees at the end of the closed private runway.

 

[Orange Anchor]

More than likely positions are set and opinions fixed. I am still a bit bewildered by the dichotomy in a previous thread where a pilot was reported to his superiors and this thread.

So there can be no misunderstanding, the pilots were wrong. Their attitude was incorrect. They did lie. Not good. But there were opportunities and avenues to resolve this in a different manner before reporting them to the FSDO and then saying, "I was just doing my job."

IF anyone is interested, here is a good read of what a flt dept should work towards. It is a 'just culture', not a blame culture and it is a resilient, learning culture where mistakes (unintentional) and violations (intentional) are examined. It is a road map to a SAFE culture. This thread proves a blame culture still exists and many believe it is justified and the right thing to do.

Hang 'em high... just doing my job.

http://flightsafety.org/files/just_culture.pdf

 

[ColoradoPilot]

http://flightsafety.org/files/just_culture.pdf

I'll have to read that when I get some time.

 

[jerrywhite7]

That's one guy...I think that's the exception. I'm definitely not (and I doubt anyone other than the person you quoted is) part of the "report everything you see" crowd, and I don't think one exists.

That being said, if someone landed on my land in an unbelievably clear violation of FAR's and then took absolutely no responsibility for their actions, I would not be opposed to reporting them.

Yes, yes and yes!! That is the whole picture. Not that they landed off field (even private property), but then had a lame lie about why they did it. Sorry guys, I don't want thoes type of folks flying around or with me.

So I guess many of you do?!?!? Mmmmm that is weird to me!

Had their attitude been different, then yeah hand shake it and move on. Other than that, maybe these folks are acting in an unsafe manner. Maybe the FAA should look into these folks to make sure all is safe.

If they did nothing wrong, then it should be pretty clear when/if they are looked into.

To me, a guy that lies about landing on a closed runway when caught, I have to wonder what else are they lying about?

 

[dasleben]

If they did nothing wrong, then it should be pretty clear when/if they are looked into.

Ugh, this argument again.

Guys, listen. I'm going to exaggerate to make a point (hyperbole?). If I call the police on you because the way you pick your nose makes me think you're a serial killer, are you going to be terribly happy?

Nothing to worry about if you're innocent, right? How about the muck you're about to be dragged through proving your innocence based on incomplete and asinine evidence?

I'm looking for someone to actually answer MikeD's question. Would you feel this same way if someone called the feds on you for a perceived violation that didn't actually exist?

 

[Orange Anchor]

I need to confess. I have also filed an ASRS.
I have flown faster than 200kts below a class B
I have on occasion deviated my my clearance speed by more than 10kts
I have used more than standard rate turn with passengers on board.
I have landed out of an unstable approach.
I have not always calculated wt/bal and numbers for actual conditions for takeoff and
landing.
I have gone to a destination without checking notams just prior to departure.
I have failed to contact tower when passing over the outer marker.
I have occasionally used non-standard phraseology on the radio
I have flown in more than 60deg of bank without wearing a parachute
I have flown without putting the latest Jepp revision in the binder ( I did have the latest. it was just not filed)

And I am truly SORRY.

 

[ColoradoPilot]

I have flown in more than 60deg of bank without wearing a parachute

Got hit with turbulence in a 172 near Fort Collins once a couple years back that slammed us to about 80 degree bank. Was a pretty sporty climb out...

 

[SurferLucas]

I need to confess. I have also filed an ASRS.
I have flown faster than 200kts below a class B
I have on occasion deviated my my clearance speed by more than 10kts
I have used more than standard rate turn with passengers on board.
I have landed out of an unstable approach.
I have not always calculated wt/bal and numbers for actual conditions for takeoff and
landing.
I have gone to a destination without checking notams just prior to departure.
I have failed to contact tower when passing over the outer marker.
I have occasionally used non-standard phraseology on the radio
I have flown in more than 60deg of bank without wearing a parachute
I have flown without putting the latest Jepp revision in the binder ( I did have the latest. it was just not filed)

And I am truly SORRY.

YOU'RE DANGEROUS...I'm gonna go tell the FAA on you!!!

 

[jerrywhite7]

Ugh, this argument again.

Guys, listen. I'm going to exaggerate to make a point (hyperbole?). If I call the police on you because the way you pick your nose makes me think you're a serial killer, are you going to be terribly happy?

Not the same thing ... and yes, we have all busted FARs for small infractions and not told on ourselves or had someone report us. But the thing about it, that stands out to me is the fact that they lied when confronted on a pretty serious infraction.

They clearly landed in a place where they knew they were not suppose to be. Not going a little fast below 10K or banking more than 60 degrees. . . man, they got busted, then did not have the character to stand up and admit it . . .

I dont go around looking for folks to bust or call the FSDO on, God only knows that I've had my share of really stupid things happen to me . . . but when I make a mistake, I admit it, and will always be of moral character.

So lets ask the question here guys (and Mike D), if YOU landed in the old runway, and were approached by the employees would you have lied?
If you found out that one of these guys was applying for a job with you, would you hire them?

If one of these guys was going to teach your wife, or kids how to fly, would that change your decision?

I think it is a new argument, if the guys are asked, and the poster here learned that the guys made a mistake, and showed that they were sorry for it. They learned that people do hike on the old runway, or whatever, or that the boss just doesnt want planes landing on the property. If he then goes after them. . .well. . dusch bag alert. . . not cool, take away his cool kid card, and send him packing!!!

Just my Two cents . . .
BTW, I have bad spelling. . I'm a pilot, get over it!!!!

 

[KLB]

I need to confess. I have also filed an ASRS.
I have flown faster than 200kts below a class B
I have on occasion deviated my my clearance speed by more than 10kts
I have used more than standard rate turn with passengers on board.
I have landed out of an unstable approach.
I have not always calculated wt/bal and numbers for actual conditions for takeoff and
landing.
I have gone to a destination without checking notams just prior to departure.
I have failed to contact tower when passing over the outer marker.
I have occasionally used non-standard phraseology on the radio
I have flown in more than 60deg of bank without wearing a parachute
I have flown without putting the latest Jepp revision in the binder ( I did have the latest. it was just not filed)

And I am truly SORRY.

I started to type some sarcastic banter of things that I've never done , but I've decided otherwise with people running around ratting folks out.

 

[Orange Anchor]

I started to type some sarcastic banter of things that I've never done , but I've decided otherwise with people running around ratting folks out.

Oh, and I just remembered. We started a push back in the 727 with the aft stairs still DOWN. Damn that was an ugly sound. (the mechanics checked it and we just shined the skin a bit. The FE had said "Ready to go" and I didn't verify it. He bought drinks that night.) Oh.. and there was the time the copilot said we were ready to fire the start cartridge on the KC-135 just before the crew chief got the intake cover out. That was about a 20ft flame when that one started. And then there was the time I flamed 'em both out trying to get to 55,000 in the -38..

Hey, confession IS good for the soul!