darrenf
resident denizen
OMG!!
Seriously, I can't find a Facepalm pic large enough to be appropriate to your post.
Had to report two to the FSDO
- Thread starter Acadia
- Start date
OMG!!
Seriously, I can't find a Facepalm pic large enough to be appropriate to your post.
Orange Anchor
New Member
You must not have done much study on human factors, admission of error and 'just cultures'. It is not a matter of being manly or cowardly. It is the culture and the attitude.
Not me but studies show most will NOT tell the truth if confronted with negative consequence. Why do you think ASAPs and ASRSs and FOQA came about? Because everyone was 'fessing up to mistakes, violations and errors? Right.
A study a few years ago in Sweden showed NOTHING was happening in the ATC centers. They instituted a voluntary program like FOQA and within weeks hundreds of reports of errors were being filed. All of a sudden the same people grew bold? Became truthful because of character issues?
Read any of James Reasons' stuff. Dekker? Orasanu? Dismukes? NASA reports or is this just another Darrenf shoot from the hip?
darrenf
resident denizen
You accuse me of shooting from the hip, yet you can say most JCer's will lie, but of course not you. :laff:
Orange Anchor
New Member
You had options. You visit a aviation site. One would have thought you would have learned something about consequence. You could have diffused the issue with some insight. You could have directed the coworkers to a different action. A different solution.
I hope in the future when you see a fellow employee making a mistake or doing something wrong in the office you will once again remember your oath.
"My duty is to my employer"? Disappointing. Very disappointing, Acadia.
Orange Anchor
New Member
I never said I didn't lie. I have. What's your point or are you still firing blanks?
Do union scabs say the same thing about duty to employer? Just wondering and making a point.
Jpax
Well-Known Member
I witnessed a White Warrior/Archer/Dakota/etc doing touch and go's (more like slamming the plane into the ground) at an airport yesterday while it was under a Presidential TFR. What'd I do? Did I call the FSDO and report him? No. I got on a radio to try to tell him know that he was busting a TFR. He didn't reply, nor did he reply to anyone else trying to raise him on the radio.
From the way he was flying his patterns, and landing, I figured he was a weekend warrior, doing his currency landings. He probably didn't even bother to check NOTAMs or TFRs...Was he an imminent threat to Obama's safety? No. He was 30-50 miles away. Did he almost wreck his plane? Sure, many times. There's only so much I can do watching from the sidelines, and I felt it was the appropriate action. There are multiple controlling agencies, from an Air Force base to major international airports, in the immediate area that could have taken action if they felt the need to do so.
After a few landings, he hastily brought his plane back to a hangar...maybe someone got him on the radio and he called it a day before anyone came to make a stink about it.
As for your situation, would I have called the FSDO? No. Not at all. I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt rather than immediately go assume someone is trying to serve me a cup of bollocks.
From the way he was flying his patterns, and landing, I figured he was a weekend warrior, doing his currency landings. He probably didn't even bother to check NOTAMs or TFRs...Was he an imminent threat to Obama's safety? No. He was 30-50 miles away. Did he almost wreck his plane? Sure, many times. There's only so much I can do watching from the sidelines, and I felt it was the appropriate action. There are multiple controlling agencies, from an Air Force base to major international airports, in the immediate area that could have taken action if they felt the need to do so.
After a few landings, he hastily brought his plane back to a hangar...maybe someone got him on the radio and he called it a day before anyone came to make a stink about it.
As for your situation, would I have called the FSDO? No. Not at all. I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt rather than immediately go assume someone is trying to serve me a cup of bollocks.
Orange Anchor
New Member
This thread is going downhill.......
Not really. In one thread everyone is upset because someone went to the Feds and in the next thread a regular thinks it is okay to go to the Feds and nail someone? What am I missing?
darrenf
resident denizen
Sorry, I misinterpreted that statement.
You did what you reasonably could there.
Off topic, I've done airspace security for the President visit, and I even think that a TFR encompassing 40 everything in a 40 mile radius is freaking overkill....
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
See there, you not only violated your duty to the FAA to nail someone, you violated your duty to your country to keep the president safe from dangerous pilots who dont check notams. Thats not only un-safe, thats treason.
I'm calling the FAA and the FBI to tell on you for not telling. It is my responsibility, after all.
I think both the pilot that flew the Warrior/Archer/Dakota in the pattern, and now Mr Jpax, should both be sent VFR-direct to Gitmo for this.....which I might add, is STILL open for business!
Orange Anchor
New Member
Huh? Somewhere I missed the transition. Scabs? I don't know any scabs and so I can not answer for them but if you are talking about a culture where the attitude is to NAIL anyone making a mistake, we are talking about a very dysfunctional culture.
"You guys know you landed on a closed strip?" yes/no
"You guys know you put people at risk?" yes/no
"You guys know that such actions could be reported and the FSDO would probably suspend your tickets for a period?" yes/no
"You know your n numbers are very visible and this was a very stupid thing to do?" yes/no.
Don't do it again.
End of story. Guys go back, tell how they dodged a bullet and tell their friends, don't land at X. Everyone learns.
Jpax
Well-Known Member
Orange Anchor
New Member
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
I find it disturbing that a man of the people (read: defense-lawyer-in-training), would not have a good legalistic way to describe "intentional" as actually "unintentional".
Furthermore, the fact that we only have one side of the story and you're ready to prosecute the violators and those who are willing to let them slide tells me you did not spend enough time employed at a 121 carrier.
You've heard of ASAP? FOQA?
I can guarantee you that your coworkers show up on FOQA "intentionally" doing something that's not by the book - but they're trying to get the job done. Those who inadvertantly make a mistake end up on ASAP... but here you are, high and mighty bringing them down.
PS... even intentional flying acts that end up on FOQA don't go to the highest level right away... the pilot is the first person who is talked to... "what the heck you doin' bud???"....
Always start at the bottom. Do NOT break chain of command!!!
No. I mean the whole "duty to employer" idea and justifications for it. Its the same justification scabs use when they scab. People think that's wrong as hell, yet "duty to employer" for reporting people the government seems to fly well. I'm just confused a bit on that one.
If it has to be VFR, can I at least get flight following?
Flight following to Gitmo for you is provided by the FBI.