Gulfstream Update

Murdoughnut

Murdoughnut

Well sized member
Does anyone have any info on Gulfstream's FO situation? I've been hearing that they're having a hard time getting anyone to come through their program these days, what with the reduced mins and all. I'm hoping they'll ditch PFT alltogether so I can get on with them and have TPA as a base.

I heard from a GIA Capt awhile back who said they would have to start hiring FOs at some point for fear of folding. He also said that the only guys coming through the program nowadays are the real bottom of the barrel.
 
Hopefully the word is being spread by JC and other pilot groups and its detering their program......
 
Tim said:
Hopefully the word is being spread by JC and other pilot groups and its detering their program......
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I think that's partly it, I really do - but the big thing right now is that airlines are hiring with such low mins that it makes no sense whatsoever to PFT (not that it ever did).
 
I just heard a story from a friend of mine that used to work there that makes me want to stay as far away from gulfstream (the airline) as much as possible... even with no more PFT!

I can't say any more than that, so don't ask.
 
Even if you did get legitimally hired as an FO there, it still may not look good on a resume. Too much bad history there....
 
There are several guys at the other forum that have worked there that say it's a really lousy place to work.
 
It's really ashame. With their routes/bases/equipment I'd be at home flying a turbo-prop which would rock my socks. Unfortunetly I've also heard from guys that have given stream a shot that no matter the juju from before the airline just isn't a good place to work for.
 
Well, you're working for an Eastern scab at an operation where instead of hiring the best of the best, they're more or less staffing it with people who could scrounge up $30,000.

I can certainly appreciate why some would say it wouldn't be that great of a place to work.
 
Gonna have to play devil's advocate here. First off, I DO NOT agree with PFT - although the argument could be made that the ATP'S and such are not that much different.

I have a friend that was an FO at Eagle for 5 years - going nowhere fast. He left Eagle for a street CA position at Gulfstream about a 1-1/2 years ago to get PIC turbine time. He got his 1000 + turbine PIC and is now an FO at Southwest. Is he at fault for flying for GStream? I hardly think so. Did it get him his dream job? Yup, Southwest is not a bad gig. Did Southwest care he flew at GStream? Obviously not.

While I was formerly buzzing around in the 717, I had a couple of different FO's that were former CA's at GStream. Good pilots, nice guys, not a problem in the world with them. Obviously my former employer had no issues with where they flew previously.

Does GStream have good schedules? Couldn't tell you - but I doubt they can be any worse than other regionals out there. Do they have good pay? Probably not - but what regional does? Do they have any accidents resulting from inferior mx? None that I'm aware of. Do they have crappy management? Probably, but I doubt it's any worse than say Mesa, that Hulas guys companies, or many other regionals out there. Do their CA's get hired by "good" companies? I can vouch they get hired at AirTran, my buddies at Southwest - and he says their CA's are at Spirit, Continental, UPS, Frontier, NetJets, FlexJet, Citation Shares and a slew of other operations.

Again, I am completely against PFT. BUT, I think the GStream fear factor card is waaaay overplayed these days by alot of folks out there. Does GStream hire "the best of the best" - doubt it, but what regional these days does? Personally, I think if someone flew for GStream it is clearly proven by whom is employing them after GStream that flying for them is not a factor.

Just an opinion, but I think one that reflects the present in the airline industry - not the past.

Max
 
Mr.Maximus said:
Gonna have to play devil's advocate here. First off, I DO NOT agree with PFT - although the argument could be made that the ATP'S and such are not that much different.

I have a friend that was an FO at Eagle for 5 years - going nowhere fast. He left Eagle for a street CA position at Gulfstream about a 1-1/2 years ago to get PIC turbine time. He got his 1000 + turbine PIC and is now an FO at Southwest. Is he at fault for flying for GStream? I hardly think so. Did it get him his dream job? Yup, Southwest is not a bad gig. Did Southwest care he flew at GStream? Obviously not.

While I was formerly buzzing around in the 717, I had a couple of different FO's that were former CA's at GStream. Good pilots, nice guys, not a problem in the world with them. Obviously my former employer had no issues with where they flew previously.

Does GStream have good schedules? Couldn't tell you - but I doubt they can be any worse than other regionals out there. Do they have good pay? Probably not - but what regional does? Do they have any accidents resulting from inferior mx? None that I'm aware of. Do they have crappy management? Probably, but I doubt it's any worse than say Mesa, that Hulas guys companies, or many other regionals out there. Do their CA's get hired by "good" companies? I can vouch they get hired at AirTran, my buddies at Southwest - and he says their CA's are at Spirit, Continental, UPS, Frontier, NetJets, FlexJet, Citation Shares and a slew of other operations.

Again, I am completely against PFT. BUT, I think the GStream fear factor card is waaaay overplayed these days by alot of folks out there. Does GStream hire "the best of the best" - doubt it, but what regional these days does? Personally, I think if someone flew for GStream it is clearly proven by whom is employing them after GStream that flying for them is not a factor.

Just an opinion, but I think one that reflects the present in the airline industry - not the past.

Max
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But that has nothing to do with whether it sucks to work there or not. :rawk:
 
DE727UPS said:
There are several guys at the other forum that have worked there that say it's a really lousy place to work.
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It's been a long time since I worked there (over 5 years), but I doubt it's that much different than when I was there. It's really a mixed bag. Some things aren't that bad, other things are horrendous.

Schedules - You'll get a decent amount of days off. Most lines are built for around 15+ days off. But, there's a reason for that: you'll fly your butt off on the days you work. You'll frequently fly 8 scheduled legs and then have a tail-end part 91 ferry flight also. I've never been so exhausted in my life, especially being based in MIA with the temp on the ramp of 110+ degrees and a deferred a/c system half the time.

Equipment - Mx was somewhat questionable. I won't get into specifics, but just be very sure that you do a good preflight. It's possible that this has gotten better since I worked there. Half the fleet was old -C model 1900s then.

Management - Filled with EAL SCABs. "Nough said.

Career progression - GIA pilots have no problems getting hired anywhere, I don't care what people on this board say. At AirTran (where I work), GIA Captains have been getting hired here for years, and the company seems very happy with the quality of the pilots. GIA pilots have been hired at every single legacy, major, national, and LCC in the country. This "black mark" thing is a myth.


Now, before DE727UPS jumps up and starts screaming, allow me to clarify something. I don't recommend that anyone PFT to be an FO at GIA. There's a big difference between PFT and being a street Captain. Don't give Cooper any of your money. I made that mistake; don't follow in my footsteps. I was young and stupid and didn't know any better. Everyone on this site should have enough info to know better.
 
JDMcFly said:
But that has nothing to do with whether it sucks to work there or not. :rawk:
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McFly,

I would imagine working there is no different than most regional airlines, which is my point. In addition to that, as a gentleman said a post or two back - GStream pilots are everywhere. Some make it out to be a career killer when the facts (whether someone likes it or not) show that people go there to get a quick 1000 turbine PIC, then they move on to any number of "good" operations. Nuff said. Not saying it's right or wrong - just stating facts.


Max
 
"I don't recommend that anyone PFT to be an FO at GIA."
"I made that mistake; don't follow in my footsteps. I was young and stupid and didn't know any better"

"Now, before DE727UPS jumps up and starts screaming"

Can I scream I love PCL128? There was once a scab at FI, can't remember the details, it was years ago. He was a pretty nice guy and one day came around and said he make a mistake and wouldn't do it again. That's pretty much all I need to hear. I still think Gulfstream PFJ is wrong and a bad way to enter the biz. Has nothing to do with if they are good pilots or bad pilots. Has nothing to do with future job progression. It's just bad for the industry when PFJ exists as a way to enter the career.

"There's a big difference between PFT and being a street Captain."

I agree, I have no problem with street Capts.

"This "black mark" thing is a myth"

That may be, but is that how it should be?

You ask your AirTran Capts about the Gulfstream pilots and 99% of them probably just think Gulfstream in another CoEx commuter in Florida. Now, you tell them F/O's pay to get a job there, and they will look at your funny, like "what's that all about". Then, ask them how they would feel if AirTran started selling the right seat for 50K and a job for six months....just to build time to get noticed at UPS. These guys would have 500 hours total time and come straight from 200 hours in the right seat at Gulfstream. These guys would have an "inside track" at Airtran, too. They could get hired for jobs at AirTran after paying their 50K and putting in their six months in the right seat. Now....you say it like that. And how many AirTran Capts would think that's a cool thing. I don't know. I can say it wouldn't go over too well at UPS.
 
DE727UPS said:
I still think Gulfstream PFJ is wrong and a bad way to enter the biz. It's just bad for the industry when PFJ exists as a way to enter the career.
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Exactly. That's why Doug's site is such a good thing. It allows the newbies to get some information ahead of time so they don't make the PFT(J) mistake. Back in '99 when I was looking to get started with my career, flightinfo wasn't around and I don't think JetCareers was here either. It's nice that all this info is now available for the new guys.

"This "black mark" thing is a myth"

That may be, but is that how it should be?
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Yes. Again, it's not right to blacklist guys that don't know any better. Unless these kids get on the internet and specifically go looking for this info, then they'll never know that this is viewed as an illegitimate way to enter the biz. They won't find out until it's too late. This is a big contrast to scabbing, because you actually have to walk across a picket line to become a scab. Kind of hard to miss the 100 pilots walking around in front of the terminal with big signs and angry looks on their faces.
 
There's no excuse in the world for a dropping a bunch of cash to buy a job at an operation like that when a heartbeat, CMEL-I and basic keyboarding skills can get you a job at a regional.

I might have had some tolerance for it before the internet, but any six year old with a free AOL account, a 300 baud acoustic modem and a Packard Bell 286 can figure out in about 97 seconds that it's doofus.

Horse... water... why don't he drink? ;)
 
I'm not so sure, Doug. How will most people that are new to aviation do research on GIA or any other airline? I'm betting Google. Go to Google and search for Gulfstream Airlines and you'll have to dig pretty deep to try to find something that references PFT. We all know about the different aviation message boards because we've been doing this for a while, but the new guys might not find these places until it's too late.
 
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