Ground School

Zapphod Beblebrox

Zapphod Beblebrox

Inventor of the Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster
Guys and Gals,

My question concerns how ATP handles the ground school portion of your training. Is it formal classroom, online, video or what?

I realize that everyone is on a somewhat self paced program but are there formal ground school's for various ratings or particular training?
 
President Big Z, ground school for the most part is self study. There are some scheduled ground sessions for each rating. If you have a good instructor, they will give you more than just the "required" ones. Most of the actual ground learning is done via their ATP application and following the syllabus that outlines what to read, what videos to watch, etc.

As far as it being somewhat self paced...unless you are truly self paced, you need to stay ahead or you will end up forced to the self paced program if you fall too far behind.

If you have any other questions, ask. Personally I finished the entire Fast Track program last month. It was a 150 day program for me but now it has changed to 180 days. They also did away with doing the combined Private/Instrument too. That was a pretty tough 1st checkride.
 
I would be interested in your background. Did you have some college credit prior to starting? Did the company accurately describe what type of study would be required? How do you think other students felt about what was going on.

As to the material studies, does ATP use dedicated material or is the required reading list open with a lot of non-ATP publications?

I am trying to get a handle on this type of operation and what they teach at the school room level, and if they even have a school room.

ZB "President of the Universe and inventor of that supreme concoction; the Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster"
 
Yes I have a college degree and was the oldest guy at my location. As far as what I was told prior to starting, yes they accurately described the whole process. I did the intro flight with them and spent well over an hour asking questions. If you call the 1-800 number listed on their website, you will talk to a CFI that just finished the program and is in Standardization training. They will be able to confirm what I have told you.

The study materials consist of their own training app on your iPad, all FAA publications such as the PHAK and FAR/AIM. Via their app you can access all of the FAA books easily. The videos are accessed via their extranet and are very informative.

They do have a "School Room" used for ground school but like I said earlier, there really isn't a structured schedule for ground. However, if you are dedicated and put in the effort, you will be fine. If you struggle with anything, your instructor will help you, heck even other instructors are willing to jump in and help. Slacking is not an option...it is a large investment in money and time and should be treated as such. Some students treat it like a new found freedom to do anything but study while others are very dedicated to studying, making their time at ATP worth every penny.

Btw, my favorite book growing up was The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy!!

"“For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen.”
― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
 
Sounds like you got it all worked out. Keep us informed. I am asking because I do training work at our airline and (on the union side) and we see changes coming. The company has staffed up a regional partner training coordination team. We have retired pilots actively involved in recruitment and we think the company will be making a major effort with some sort of flow through or other type arrangement.

Because there is no "scope trade" as there was when mainline contracts were altered to allow for RJ's to be operated there is not as much leverage as there was before on the labor side. The company will decide what it wants to do and do it. Labor does not control who the company hires unless they have they have some leverage or the company asks for help from the union.

We really don't know what is going to happen but overall I think it is a good time to be where you are. If you have a degree, and if you get training at a reputable place and move along in your career you can have a better shot at getting on at a major than people have had for the past 14 years or so.
 
Which airline do you work for? I'm quite a ways out but I will get to the big dogs eventually. I'm taking my ATP written soon, giving me 2 years to get to 1500...only 1250 to go! Anyhow, if you would like, I could put you in contact with the director of training at ATP. He is a great guy, extremely knowledgeable and could answer any further questions in much more detail.

I know that some people complain about ATP and their methods but I can tell you firsthand, I have zero complaints and would recommend them to anyone willing to put forth the effort.
 
Do you have an email that you would care to post or any other contact information. I don't want mine on a public board.
 
Zapphod Beblebrox said:
Sounds like you got it all worked out. Keep us informed. I am asking because I do training work at our airline and (on the union side) and we see changes coming. The company has staffed up a regional partner training coordination team. We have retired pilots actively involved in recruitment and we think the company will be making a major effort with some sort of flow through or other type arrangement.

Because there is no "scope trade" as there was when mainline contracts were altered to allow for RJ's to be operated there is not as much leverage as there was before on the labor side. The company will decide what it wants to do and do it. Labor does not control who the company hires unless they have they have some leverage or the company asks for help from the union.
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Indeed, labor typically cannot control such things, as I'm sure you're well aware (management rights).

I got my commercial multiengine (initial commercial) at ATP Long Beach about 4-5 years ago now, and I did the RJ Standards Course at a condition of hire at Brand X (on their dime). I don't have much input on the career guys (my instructor was a 'career program' guy and is a very sharp guy), but it did seem, like many other training programs, that you got out of it what you put into it, and that if you came in prepared, knowledge-wise, and were willing to put in the effort, your success was much more assured than coming in having not done any of the assigned reading (etc.). If you came in and were a slacker your future was far from assured; one gentleman in the career program while I was there did not seem to be taking it seriously and, consequently, was really struggling. The RJ Standards thing was actually a good "this is a jet; these are its systems and this is how to work as a team" introduction to airline flying, but I don't think I'd ever want to pay for it myself.

Overall, my (limited) experience with ATP have been positive. PM me if you have any questions.
 
You will not be spoon fed, need to know how to study on your own (IMO why people with college had far greater success rates), and submit to the fact that theres not much 'self paced' about the 'fast track' program. It either works for you or it doesn't. Most CFI's know the areas students struggle with and will do extra ground to fill in the gaps. However, if you expect a CFI to go over rote information repeatedly or when it comes to check-ride prep time it's obvious you haven't been putting in the effort you might want to study up on the refund policy.

I guess the answer is a majority of it falls on your shoulders by completing the readings, videos, and assignments. You'll get one on one ground, I'd say about half of that one on one ground time isn't actually receiving instruction more than it is verifying you're progressing normally via mock orals and the various evaluations. From what I saw, this was the area where people failed to fully realize how it all worked, how much effort was involved, or simply couldn't absorb the information fast enough. This often culminated in a $45,000 private multi, or in a few cases a $20,000 joyride never completing one check-ride at all.

Not saying this is the right way do do things, it's just the ATP way. Just have to ask yourself deep down if this will work for you, because it can get pretty expensive if you're wrong.
 
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