Ground Ops vs. Diversions?

Pilot121

Pilot121

Well-Known Member
I recently got a job as a ramp agent, and heard a strange discussion take place between our station ground ops manager and an OO flight that had to divert due to weather and fuel limitations. Basically what happened is our small little airport only has a few gates DL flights can use. We already had one diversion land, and gate space was getting tight. The pilot of the OO flight called our ops manager to give us a heads up they would be landing. The ground ops ramp supervisor on duty got very sassy with the pilot and said "we can't take diversions." That obviously didn't go over well with the flight crew. Finally, after a painfully long back and forth, my supervisor gave in to letting the plane land.
My question is, since when can ramp personnel claim that a station can't accept diversions? Is this common practice? I always thought that station personnel have no input over whether or not to let a flight land...
But what do I know, I'm just a student pilot ;)
Thanks,
Pilot121
 
I've heard ops managers, when getting called from dispatchers, refusing to allow a diversion when dispatchers were adding an alternate for that city, but I don't think they could actually stop a diversion unless given a very very good reason. Even if you tell a dispatcher no to being an alternate, pretty sure they can just do it anyhow...
 
They don't have the option to turn diversions away. When I worked ops I always told them we'll be waiting and if we can't accommodate them at a jet bridge then we'll make other accommodations. There's been times that I was walking out the airport with co workers at 1am only to see a flight on the baggage claim board then get a call a minute later that someone is diverting or if you're the station manager and you get a call in the middle of the night. It sucks but it's not much you can do but get up and go to the airport. Being in the cockpit I don't give a hoot how much you don't want diversions at your station. I'll see you in 15-20mins. But I guess some guys act like that when they have very little power at home or outside of work.
 
phill1174 said:
They don't have the option to turn diversions away. When I worked ops I always told them we'll be waiting and if we can't accommodate them at a jet bridge then we'll make other accommodations. There's been times that I was walking out the airport with co workers at 1am only to see a flight on the baggage claim board then get a call a minute later that someone is diverting or if you're the station manager and you get a call in the middle of the night. It sucks but it's not much you can do but get up and go to the airport. Being in the cockpit I don't give a hoot how much you don't want diversions at your station. I'll see you in 15-20mins. But I guess some guys act like that when they have very little power at home or outside of work.
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Yep that's what I figured. I'm glad I wasn't overreacting lol!
 
Where do you operate at?

When I worked DGS on the DL side, if we had a diversion that we couldn't operate CFR would take over. We never had a "say" in what we could or couldn't do.

We had a 767 diversion once with temps below 0 and no heat cart to keep the water lines from freezing...but even so we still accommodated, took care of the paxs, and sent them off hours later. Same thing with a Lufthansa 747...no gate big enough and no equipment to even work it....but we had no option to say "no". Most of the time I've noticed CFR takes it first, then would call us or UA for whoever is responsible for the flight.

The tough part was continuing your normal operations with mainline or regionals, but I've never once heard any supervisor say "go somewhere else". I have talked to dispatch before when they've selected us as alternates to just say we have no gates or heat to accommodate but they still used us as am alternate lol. This story is rather surprising to me.
 
Oh and the worst part is that all of my coworkers were calling the pilots dumb *$$es for "running out of fuel."
:bang:
 
Not sure why a lengthy "back and forth" happened in the first place. A simple, "we're 10-15 out," is all it takes. If the station manager wants to make an issue out of it, on the ground, with the DO and ACS director on speakerphone is the place to have a back and forth. At a minimum, I'd just land, pull up to the non movement area, and let them figure it out.
 
Pilot121 said:
I recently got a job as a ramp agent, and heard a strange discussion take place between our station ground ops manager and an OO flight that had to divert due to weather and fuel limitations. Basically what happened is our small little airport only has a few gates DL flights can use. We already had one diversion land, and gate space was getting tight. The pilot of the OO flight called our ops manager to give us a heads up they would be landing. The ground ops ramp supervisor on duty got very sassy with the pilot and said "we can't take diversions." That obviously didn't go over well with the flight crew. Finally, after a painfully long back and forth, my supervisor gave in to letting the plane land.
My question is, since when can ramp personnel claim that a station can't accept diversions? Is this common practice? I always thought that station personnel have no input over whether or not to let a flight land...
But what do I know, I'm just a student pilot ;)
Thanks,
Pilot121
Click to expand...

I needed a laugh this morning. This was it!

KSNA (Orange County) often has a gate issue. I was a pax on a TWA 757, row 1A out of JFK, staring at the bulkhead. I stayed in my seat when we stopped at St Louis so by the time we got to Orange County I was ready to get off the airplane really bad.

It went something like this.

This is the Captain. The good news is we got you to Orange County 20 minutes ahead of schedule. The bad news is another aircraft is sitting at our gate so we can't unload. The really bad news is a 2nd aircraft is waiting for the gate ahead of us.

Ahhhhh! The emergency slide was sounding like a good option.

 
Cptnchia said:
Not sure why a lengthy "back and forth" happened in the first place. A simple, "we're 10-15 out," is all it takes. If the station manager wants to make an issue out of it, on the ground, with the DO and ACS director on speakerphone is the place to have a back and forth. At a minimum, I'd just land, pull up to the non movement area, and let them figure it out.
Click to expand...

This. The captain or FO on the radio shouldn't have even engaged in an argument with the manager. As the flight crew, we are informing you of our decision, not asking permission.
 
Pilot121 said:
I recently got a job as a ramp agent, and heard a strange discussion take place between our station ground ops manager and an OO flight that had to divert due to weather and fuel limitations. Basically what happened is our small little airport only has a few gates DL flights can use. We already had one diversion land, and gate space was getting tight. The pilot of the OO flight called our ops manager to give us a heads up they would be landing. The ground ops ramp supervisor on duty got very sassy with the pilot and said "we can't take diversions." That obviously didn't go over well with the flight crew. Finally, after a painfully long back and forth, my supervisor gave in to letting the plane land.
My question is, since when can ramp personnel claim that a station can't accept diversions? Is this common practice? I always thought that station personnel have no input over whether or not to let a flight land...
But what do I know, I'm just a student pilot ;)
Thanks,
Pilot121
Click to expand...

The short answer is "they can't." Flight operations decisions are between the Captain and the Dispatcher, and the ground personnel/station agents have no say. That said, a savvy station manager will anticipate the situation, and contact dispatch to request no more diversions be sent their way. Most dispatchers understand the problems of sending too many diversions to one airport, and will plan accordingly. But getting into a pissing match with the flight crew while they're on final approach is not going to work out well for the station manager.
 
Cptnchia said:
Not sure why a lengthy "back and forth" happened in the first place. A simple, "we're 10-15 out," is all it takes. If the station manager wants to make an issue out of it, on the ground, with the DO and ACS director on speakerphone is the place to have a back and forth. At a minimum, I'd just land, pull up to the non movement area, and let them figure it out.
Click to expand...
The flight crew said exactly that -- "we're 10 minutes out." But my supervisor is the one who freaked out and made a big deal about it. Fortunately the pilot was able to put the supervisor in her place and said "look, we don't have a choice. You don't understand ma'am."
The crew did everything right; the supervisor is the one who screwed it up!
 
Of course the station manager doesn't have any authority regarding a crew deciding to divert to a city.

HOWEVER.....I think if they have some good information it could help in a decision. Not every diversion is the same.

Scenario 1. We've held for 30mins going into St. John's Newfoundland and our only real good option is Gander (wx good there). Call Gander ops and they tell us they can't take us because they're busy tonight. Sorry but we're coming anyway.

Scenario 2. We're approaching Savannah and holding for weather that isn't moving through very quickly. We see we're not going to get in and rather than take it to the limit we'll just start our divert now (plenty of JetA). We call our diversion city (CAE) and they say "head's up might not be a good idea to come here. Our jet bridge just broke and the fuel truck on duty just caught fire. We really can't handle you right now." Good intel, we'll go see how things are in CHS instead.
 
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