Ground Instructors and third class medicals

[million_air]

What are the requirements to become a ground instructor for instruments or just the basic stuff. Can you do it with a third class medical. Im asking because im limited to a third class medical and i was wondering if i could still do some of the ground work if not the CFI stuff. And i read somewhere that to be a ground instructor you need at least a commercial license, well to use your commercial license you need a second class, but i understand a third class medical can still allow you to get your commercial license, you just cant actually use it to fly commercially. Is that correct? So if i were to get my commercial license( still with only a 3rd class medical) and then get my ground instrcutor license could I be paid to be a ground instructor even though i only have a third class medical?

If thats not the case, does anyone else know of any other ways to make money with a third class medical?

thanks

 

[gomntwins]

You can be a CFI with a third class medical!

 

[E_Dawg]

You don't need a medical to give ground instruction. You don't even need a medical to give flight instructon so long as the other guy can act as PIC.

 

[AirmetTango]

You can be a CFI without any medical, so long as the person you're giving instruction to has a certificate other than student, is current, and has his own medical. Also, a medical is not required at all to obtain or exercise the privileges of a ground instructor certificate. [61.3(c)(2)(iv) and (v)]

 

[Ryan]

[ QUOTE ]
What are the requirements to become a ground instructor for instruments or just the basic stuff. And i read somewhere that to be a ground instructor you need at least a commercial license

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, my ground instructor only has his PPL, and he is an AGI & IGI he doesn't even have his private/instrument and he can teach the ground part of an instrument rating. Don't ask me why you can have an IGI w/o having your instrument rating

p.s. incase anyone doesn't know IGI-Instrument Ground Instructor AGI-Advanced Ground Instructor

Ryan

 

[gomntwins]

With a third class medical, however, you can give instruction to anybody. So, with your third class you can instruct student pilots without any problems and others who are not rated in the aircraft (giving instruction in a Multi Engine to somebody with their Single Engine certificates, of course you'd have to be an MEI)!

 

[million_air]

Ok thanks guys

 

[flyguy]

[ QUOTE ]
With a third class medical, however, you can give instruction to anybody. So, with your third class you can instruct student pilots without any problems and others who are not rated in the aircraft (giving instruction in a Multi Engine to somebody with their Single Engine certificates, of course you'd have to be an MEI)!

[/ QUOTE ]
You sure about that? Don't you need a second class to excercise commercial privelages such as flight instructing?

 

[Alchemy]

Yep, it's in part 61.

14 CFR 61.23(a)(3)(iv) to be exact.

 

[gomntwins]

Back to the original post... you can definitely get your AGI and IGI as try and find a job, but I think you'll find it quite difficult. Most of the people I know that have there AGI or IGI give ground instruction to their friends who are also working on pilot ratings. It usually helps keep the cost down if your friend will give you instruction free (or for the 90 dollars they paid to take the test). That's not to say that it's impossible... everything's possible... I would just think it'd be quite difficult with the large number of CFI's who are out there looking for a job. If you do it, I wish nothing but the best... good luck!

 

[RiddlePilot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With a third class medical, however, you can give instruction to anybody. So, with your third class you can instruct student pilots without any problems and others who are not rated in the aircraft (giving instruction in a Multi Engine to somebody with their Single Engine certificates, of course you'd have to be an MEI)!

[/ QUOTE ]
You sure about that? Don't you need a second class to excercise commercial privelages such as flight instructing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. From the Part 61 FAQ:

QUESTION: Do the rules permit a flight instructor to even receive compensation for instruction when that flight instructor holds only a third class medical, or maybe does not even hold a current medical certificate at all?

ANSWER: § 61.23(b)(5); Yes, in accordance with § 61.23(b)(5), a flight instructor who does not hold a medical certificate may give flight and ground training and be compensated for it. In the preamble of the parts 61 and 141 final rule that was published in the Federal Register on April 4, 1997 (62 FR 16220-16367) when the FAA revised the entire Part 61, the FAA stated the following in the Federal Register on page 16242 in response to whether a medical certificate is required for a flight instructor to give ground and flight training:

“ With respect to the holding of medical certificates by a flight instructor, the FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for piloting the aircraft, but rather is compensation for the instruction. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and is receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is only exercising the privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft. . . . In this same regard, the FAA has determined that a certificated flight instructor on board an aircraft for the purpose of providing flight instruction, who does not act as pilot in command or function as a required flight crewmember, is not performing or exercising pilot privileges that would require him or her to possess a valid medical certificate under the FARs.”

 

[LostComm]

The ground tickets seem to do just a couple of things for you:

1. You get to practice the instrument and airplane instructor exams.

2. You get to hide your FOI score from the DE if it's rotten.

3. You're eligible for a Gold Seal.

4. The recordkeeping requirements are not as strict for GIs vs CFIs.

5. Should you find yourself employed by FSI or another simulator sort of outfit (I know FSI flies too, but they also have lots of straight ground instructors) a ground ticket is key for employment.

Just my 2 cents,

Lostcomm

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

[ QUOTE ]

Nope.

[/ QUOTE ]Correct. If a CFI needs to act as a required crewmember, the CFI only needs the level of medical certificate the crew status requires, a third class.

And if the CFI does act as a required crewmember, the CFI needs no medical at all.

So, the easy answer to the original question is, yes you may be a ground instructor with only a 3rd class medical and for another way of making money, you can be a CFI as well

 

[flyguy]

[ QUOTE ]

“ With respect to the holding of medical certificates by a flight instructor, the FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for piloting the aircraft, but rather is compensation for the instruction. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and is receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is only exercising the privileges of a private pilot. A certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight instruction is not carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire, nor is he or she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an aircraft. . . . In this same regard, the FAA has determined that a certificated flight instructor on board an aircraft for the purpose of providing flight instruction, who does not act as pilot in command or function as a required flight crewmember, is not performing or exercising pilot privileges that would require him or her to possess a valid medical certificate under the FARs.”

[/ QUOTE ]
Does this mean you don't even need a commercial certificate to become a CFI?

 

[rhs]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean you don't even need a commercial certificate to become a CFI?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it doesn't. 61.183(c) says that you need a commercial or ATP certificate to be eligible for a flight instructor certificate.

 

[RiddlePilot]

You do need a commercial certificate to become a CFI. However, I don't think (my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt) that the requirement has anything to do with getting paid, but more the experience level involved.

61.183(c) if you're interested.

EDIT: rhs has a quicker keyboard than mine, so disregard.

 

[casey]

[ QUOTE ]
Does this mean you don't even need a commercial certificate to become a CFI?

[/ QUOTE ]

14 CFR 61.183
To be eligible for a flight instructor certificate or rating a person must:
(c) Hold either a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport pilot certificate with:
(1) An aircraft category can class rating that is appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought; and
(2) An instrument rating or privledges on that person's pilot certificate that are appropriate to the flight instructor rating sought, if applying for--
(i) Flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and single-engine class rating;
(ii) Flight instructor certificate with an airplane category and multi-engine class rating;
(iv) Flight instructor certificate with an instrument rating;

so you need a commercial instrument ticket if you are seeking to instruct in airplanes.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

[ QUOTE ]
However, I don't think (my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt) that the requirement has anything to do with getting paid, but more the experience level involved.

[/ QUOTE ]I think you're on target about the rationale. Although getting paid isn't really the issue (the no-medical CFI =can= get paid for teaching). the FAA wants CFIs to have attained a certain level of pilot proficiency, so they require all CFIs to have a commercial certificate, whether or not they actually use it for commercial pilot operations

The requirements for CFI have changed through the years. There are probably still a few CFIs out there with only private certificates and a few more without instrument ratings.