Great Lakes option

propilot3574

Well-Known Member
I know this has been talked about before but I still have more questions and need a little help. I run my own business and I have about 330TT 50ME. I am building about 100hrs a year just personal flying. I am a one leg hop to DEN so Lakes looks pretty good from that stand point. Just wondering the following:
1. How long do you have to usaully stay on reserve before the line and how do you get paid, only for hours flown I'm sure. And how long is your call out time?
2. How many hours of PIC turbine can you expect first year if any.
3. How many days off can you expect in a week.
4. Can a guy with 400-450TT and 75ME even get a look.
I would really appreciate any comments from current or past employees that could help me out.
 
I'm not sure if there are any Lakers on the boards here. I've got a few friends that are there and from what they tell me it looks like this...


That most junior guy I know that is there was on reserve for 3 months. That changes monthly so if/when you get there, who knows. You are paid only for the time you fly, but I think they gurentee you 70 hours of pay a a month. I have no idea what there call out time is for reserve. I would bet it's pretty short.

Upgrade is about 14 months right now. That means no PIC time until then.

I don't know the number of days off you could get, but I would bet the number is low, especially when on reserve.

I think there mins are around 700 and 50. However, I know of people getting on with a whole lot less. That said, do some real soul searching as whether you want to work for a company like that. I know some people love it, and some hate it.
 
propilot3574 said:
...I run my own business and I have about 330TT 50ME. I am building about 100hrs a year just personal flying.
The Laker lifestyle is just that... a lifestyle. Not a lot of days off, not the best work rules... but, when you are in the same boat, working your arse off, as everyone else you work with, it actually becomes tolerable and dare I say it... enjoyable. You will definately walk away with some great memories and friendships.

Some really like it and can tolerate it and others get their PIC and get out to even another regional for better QOL sometimes... we've got a few at ours. That said, I know there have been some posts on here about Lakers who were willing to stick it out and got on with FEDex & such... way faster than a Jet FO at a regional... so a quick search should help you find that.

Also... I know I'm treading on rough waters here... but, I just happened to have written a "short story" about someone in a similiar position as you in suppport of my view of a disagreement over a current advertiser's program... I'm not a saying it's for you... it's just that I was surprised by your post here today since your time's and background are similiar to "Chucks". :)

See here: http://jetcareers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=358152#post358152

Be sure to read both sides of the discussion if it's something that interest you. However, If your wanting to go Props... then disregard.

Bob
 
My long term goal is to fly corporate. I really don't have the sjs yet nor do I see that in the future, I am looking for something to get some time in to make myself more marketable. BE200 or Citation really doesn't matter much to me besides the pay department. But I have a certain QOL I would like to reach before I am 55 wondering where did I go wrong. I have bulit most of my time on my own, received my Instrument rating with PIC and my ME private at ATP. I am receiving my COMM single locally and intend on getting my ME Comm at a college training center. I am not looking for Big Bucks right away and with the airlines like they are hardly expect it in the future, I am just looking to get in and start my career. I do appreciate the feedback and any extra would be helpful Thanks!
 
Thanks for the extra insight on yourself... that helps a lot.

There are quite a few corporate guys on here that will now be able to chime in to help you out. JohhnyB comes to mind.

You are probably already aware that your going to most likely need a minimum of 1200TT and 200 multi to go corporate and if you want to get it quickly then Lakes may well work for you. I, like BobDDuck, have heard of people getting on at Lakes at lower than Mins... 500 and 50 seems to be popping into my head for some reason.

Hopefully, a Laker or two will come out of the woodwork and chime in... I know we have a few on here. In the meantime... here's some basic info on Pay and Guarantee over there. http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/great-lakes-2005030570.htm

You state that QOL is a concern for you. One thing to consider then... I'm making more as a 2nd year FO at a regional than a 6 year Capt is at Lakes. If on the other hand, it's all about the time... then, his/her PIC Turbine time is obviously more marketable than mine.

Bob
 
skyhawk39 said:
Missing Laker's
Where did they go? :D

Great Lakes Parties
Having a Party? Post it here!! :cool:

Dude... I gotta get XJT to put some forums like that on our site!

In all seriousness... Thanks for the post. The airline's online forums are indeed a good resource. Didn't know they had one.

Bob
 
Find someone who works there to walk your resume in. If you can do that, then I have heard of people getting in at around 300hrs or so. 500/100 is probably more realistic though.

As far as using lakes to move on to bigger and better, it depends on each person but you could be applying at a major or a corporate job in 2 years if you got hired at Lakes today.

I have met several of their pilots and they all say they would do it again if they had the chance.

There is at least one Laker pilot that reads these forums from time to time... Maybe he will chime in soon?
 
Captain_Bob said:
You state that QOL is a concern for you. One thing to consider then... I'm making more as a 2nd year FO at a regional than a 6 year Capt is at Lakes. If on the other hand, it's all about the time... then, his/her PIC Turbine time is obviously more marketable than mine.

Bob

Valid points here from everyone....and I agree with the fact that Bob is making more $$$ at 2 yrs. than 6 yrs. at Lakes...but I've known more Lakers that go other places faster than other regionals (again, because the PIC can be earned faster...and because I know some Lakes guys )

Lake's used to be the bottom of the barrel, but not anymore. There's now RJ regionals like Mesa and GoJets to fill that bill.

Advantages of Lakes ? 2 steady domiciles (or is it 3 now with ABQ...), quicker upgrade than most other regionals, close knit group that doesn't seem to have a lot of infighting (based on the people I know there)
 
many lakers have moved on to Frontier, fedex and many more...
The word is the Lakers ground school is so hard and their hand flying skills so great that they are able to cruise throughmost other ground school/sim sessions. Thus, making them great candidates for above mentioned airlines.
Plus they party like rockstars... :rawk:
adios
 
Has anyone else tried to get on the readt to copy forum. I don't know if it is down or it's just my computer blocking it? SHOULD I TAKE THIS AS A SIGN! Just kidding!
 
A note from the other side of the fence: I was a CFI looking to move on, but the QOL at Lakes wouldn't have allowed me to support (or even half support) my family. You do get turbine time there, but you don't get many days off, and I would have taken a pay cut going from CFI to FO, something I don't agree with.

That being said, it works for some people. It just wasn't the right move for me. I just stuck it out a little bit longer and was hired with a regional with better pay, more days off (marginally for now) with an upgrade time of rougly 10 months more than GL. IMO, going to a regional only to jump to another regional sorta defeats the purpose. I know some Lakers stick it out to go to FedEx and other places, and my hat's off to them for sticking through it that long. But as Bob pointed out, I'd have trouble making student loan payments until about 7 years into Lakes. If ya don't have the loans, it might work out better. The fact that I didn't like anywhere near DEN was also a factor since I'd have to move my family halfway across the country.

Just another viewpoint to consider.
 
i know a couple of dudes headed your way for training on the 1st of may...
any advice I could pass on?
thanks
shiner
 
Shinerbock said:
i know a couple of dudes headed your way for training on the 1st of may...
any advice I could pass on?
thanks
shiner

I aint steve, but I would say tell them to bring a good attitude. 9E doesnt have the best work rules or pay (tho it should get better with the new contract), but that doesnt mean you shouldnt enjoy your time here.
 
Yeah, what Brian said. I know a guy in the class ahead of me was shown the door for his attitude, or at least that's the rumot. Other things are get those memory items and limitations down ASAP so they can concentrate on learning the flows, call outs and profiles. If they can have all of that done by the time they start CPTs, they'll be sitting pretty good.
 
propilot3574 said:
I know this has been talked about before but I still have more questions and need a little help. I run my own business and I have about 330TT 50ME. I am building about 100hrs a year just personal flying. I am a one leg hop to DEN so Lakes looks pretty good from that stand point. Just wondering the following:
1. How long do you have to usaully stay on reserve before the line and how do you get paid, only for hours flown I'm sure. And how long is your call out time?
2. How many hours of PIC turbine can you expect first year if any.
3. How many days off can you expect in a week.
4. Can a guy with 400-450TT and 75ME even get a look.
I would really appreciate any comments from current or past employees that could help me out.

Bit late since i've been away on a trip but better late than never. Anyways here goes.

1. Reserve depends on when you get hired. I was hired towards the tail end of things last year and I sat reserve for 5 months. Which is considered long for us. The current newhires sat reserve for one month or so before being able to hold a high speed line (continuous duty overnight).

Reserve pay can be nice if you can pick up trips. You're paid 75 hours, the guarantee, each month plus any per diem. The way our reserve works is that you are guaranteed 3.75 hours of pay each day. However, if you fly more than 3.75, the extra hours above 3.75 go towards your monthy guarantee. Meaning if you fly 6 hours a day while on reserve you get an extra 2.25 hours on top of your guarantee. I flew 60 hours one month and got paid for over 100. Call out is one hour.

2. Not much with your times if any. Upgrade can come in under a year though. One of my classmates from indoc upgraded in 9 months.

3. Days off? Guaranteed 10. Butl if you're on reserve it's 6 days of reserve followed by 2 or 3 days off, then 6 on then 4 off, etc.. Regular line varies. Telluride stuff goes 100-110 hours a month, home every other night and 15 days off. Typical lines vary from 10-14 days off a month with about 80-90 hours of flying and trips of 4 to 5 days on. This includes getting the shaft and working back to back trips with a day or two off in between. Though you will get your inviables with around 4-5 days off in a row later on in the month. High speeds are nice if you want to stay home. Show up to work at around 8 pm and back in the morning at 8 am with the rest of the day off till your next show. Usually you're "scheduled" only 10-12 days off a month but it works out to more than that since it counts the morning that you check out and the evening that you check on duty as a day each. Plus you get weekends off. Realistically, depending upon how many FO's we've got, expect around 10-11 days after being jr manned. If we have enough FO's, that's not a big problem. I've got a 90 hr block line with 99 hours of credit and 14 days off next month. And from the looks of things I should be able keep my all of my days off with all of the new FO's we've got. *knock on wood*

4. If you can get someone to walk your resume in and give you a personal recommendation you can definately get a look. I know of several who were hired on with times around there and there have been others who have been hired with around 300 tt. Lakes put's a big emphasis on recommendations so that's the golden key.

Hope that helps.
 
skyhawk39 said:
Valid points here from everyone....and I agree with the fact that Bob is making more $$$ at 2 yrs. than 6 yrs. at Lakes...but I've known more Lakers that go other places faster than other regionals (again, because the PIC can be earned faster...and because I know some Lakes guys )

Lake's used to be the bottom of the barrel, but not anymore. There's now RJ regionals like Mesa and GoJets to fill that bill.

Advantages of Lakes ? 2 steady domiciles (or is it 3 now with ABQ...), quicker upgrade than most other regionals, close knit group that doesn't seem to have a lot of infighting (based on the people I know there)

That's pretty much the point of Lakes. I don't want to get into the politics side of things, but Lakes has always been a place where you go to pay your dues, get your time and move on to bigger and better. If you want to talk bottom of the barrel or scum of the industry, well there's alot of other Airlines that have done worse to the industry than Lakes ever has.

Oh and we've only got two domiciles for now (DEN and PHX) and yep, we're a pretty close knit group of pilots. Although theres rumors floating around about a Chicago base again. But you pretty much know everyone here and everyones pretty much cool with the exception of your usual 10% that you would find everwhere.
 
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