Great Lakes Airlines

rdsoxpilot

rdsoxpilot

Well-Known Member
Got off a flight on Great Lakes, and talked with the F/O. He said that the mins. when he got on were 375TT/50ME, and that within 4 months on the job he was looking to upgrade by early next year.

Can anybody confirm this or was this guy just blowing smoke? (no pun intended)
 
Great Lakes will put you in the left seat at ATP mins. It has pretty much always been the case at lakes that as soon as you get to mins, you have a chance to upgrade soon afterwards. They are the worst pay in the industry (by an impressive margin even), there is no pay during training, and they have notoriously difficult training. Unless you want to fly a 1900D for personal or career reasons, I don't see any reason to go there.
 
They are the worst pay in the industry (by an impressive margin even)
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Wow, first year FO $15, second year $17, and third $20. Next time I see one of the pilots from Great Lakes, I offer to buy a cup of coffee. Even with such a low upgrade time, it does not look that attractive at all.
 
I wouldn't buy some one a cup of coffee for going to Mistakes. People who love it there are to low time to know any better. I mean really $15 /hr 1st yr no pay during training and in the 20's when you upgrade. With all the other careers out there hiring such low time how does Great Mistakes even get people?
 
WalterSobchak said:
I wouldn't buy some one a cup of coffee for going to Mistakes. People who love it there are to low time to know any better. I mean really $15 /hr 1st yr no pay during training and in the 20's when you upgrade. With all the other careers out there hiring such low time how does Great Mistakes even get people?
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If the most important thing is upgrade time, then it makes good sense to go there. There are people who have no financial obligations or families to worry about. What ever works best for them. It seems you have to give a little to get a little evreywhere you go these days.
 
tprops4me said:
If the most important thing is upgrade time, then it makes good sense to go there. There are people who have no financial obligations or families to worry about. What ever works best for them. It seems you have to give a little to get a little evreywhere you go these days.
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Thats the lamest excuse I've ever heard. Thats like someone saying it's okay to work for Gojets if you don't mind stabbing your fellow pilots in the back. Working for Great Mistakes says to people "Hey, I don't give a flip about anything. I'll fly in that right seat for peanuts and a banana just so I can tell people I swallowed my pride, lived below the poverty line and took one so I could fly a turbine powered aircraft"
I've not settled for less though I took the 135 route and started out VFR, moved to IFR and have always made a damn fine living at it.
People should remember there is more to aviation than Flight Instructing (which is an honest profession that professionals can make a good living doing) and regionals that can still get them to their final career destinations.
 
Baj I agree with you except that GLA is just a small EAS operation that isn't hurting anybody by having $15 per hour pay, and tprops does have a point. GLA I would imagine gets young pilots with no signifcant obligations who don't mind the low qol for a VERY quick upgrade, under a year, something they won't get at other regionals that take 3-5 years for an upgrade.
 
I have two sad tidbits to share about the life of a Mistakes pilot (good friend of mine)

1) Had to live parents basement

2) I made more than him when he was a 3rd year captain and I was a 2nd year FO at OO.

Hmmm...suck much?
 
these kinda places, i'd only go because nobody else will take me due to my student visa/job situation lol

I hate seeing these threads and thinking I might have to go to one of these airlines that'll take me, and work for fricking peanuts :(
 
BajtheJino said:
Thats the lamest excuse I've ever heard. Thats like someone saying it's okay to work for Gojets if you don't mind stabbing your fellow pilots in the back. Working for Great Mistakes says to people "Hey, I don't give a flip about anything. I'll fly in that right seat for peanuts and a banana just so I can tell people I swallowed my pride, lived below the poverty line and took one so I could fly a turbine powered aircraft"
I've not settled for less though I took the 135 route and started out VFR, moved to IFR and have always made a damn fine living at it.
People should remember there is more to aviation than Flight Instructing (which is an honest profession that professionals can make a good living doing) and regionals that can still get them to their final career destinations.
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To my knowledge Great Lakes is not an alter ego airline. They also fly 19 seat turbo props instead of 70 seat regional jets. I dont see how you can compare the two. Also when you upgrade in six months you are not making $15 an hour. It goes to $26, which is $5 more an hour than first year people at Colgan. What I said was objective, not lame. Again thats of course if they waited until they have a good amount of hours until they sent a resume so they can upgrade when the time comes. I can see it's not your thing, but to many it can be a smart move. They fly props so no one can say they save SJS. They have the magic pic hours, and start thinking about a major or whatever that much sooner. They just don't make crap. They have taken no ones flying away. At least no more than any other regional is doing these days. In my eyes its a clean move.
 
tprops - go work there for 6 months - file your own flight plans, get notice of your annual checkride 2 hours before leaving on a 4 hour standup, do said checkride when you are supposed to be resting, make less money than working flipping burgers, etc.

Then come back and tell us "its a clean move" :)
 
bike21 said:
tprops - go work there for 6 months - file your own flight plans, get notice of your annual checkride 2 hours before leaving on a 4 hour standup, do said checkride when you are supposed to be resting, make less money than working flipping burgers, etc.

Then come back and tell us "its a clean move" :)
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OK. Let me put it this way. I could give two Sh#$s about Great Lakes Airlines. I am not defending them or recruiting for them. My initial post was just saying that if you are chasing the fast upgrade, and did not care about compensation, then it was just as good a choice as any other regional. My second post was arguing the comparison of it to Go Jet. I have never heard Velo say that he would deny a jumpseat to someone from Great Lakes. If it was on his list, I would consider them possibly shady. Now before any of you accuse me of making my decisions on what Velo says, it was a joke. Finally, I think anyone at any airline can find something that sucks bad. You will make more flipping burgers than you would at any regional, except maybe two, first year. One thing I learned long ago is not to do this for the money. In the military we had a saying. Choose your rate, choose your fate. Same thing here. Make your choice, then deal with all the consequences. Don't read anymore into it than that.
 
I think the point is it's airlines like GL that make it difficult for other places like ASA, Pinnacle, Mesa etc to get decent pay rates. Management looks at Lakes and says "Wow! Those guys will do essentially the same job for HALF what we're paying our guys! Why should we give them raises?" Doesn't matter if their a "small EAS carrier," they ARE hurting people. They're flying turbine equipment in a 121 environment. How is that different than Colgan's 1900s? It doesn't matter two beans to me if it's got a quick upgrade. They're professional pilots and should be paid like them. This whole "happy to be here" mentality is what's killing us.

I happen to think their CA pay rates are a crime against humanity, especially when you see FO payrates at other places. So, you upgrade in a year at GL? Great. You're making a whopping $1 more an hour than a Colgan 2nd year FO in the SAME AIRPLANE!
 
tprops4me said:
To my knowledge Great Lakes is not an alter ego airline. They also fly 19 seat turbo props instead of 70 seat regional jets. I dont see how you can compare the two. Also when you upgrade in six months you are not making $15 an hour. It goes to $26, which is $5 more an hour than first year people at Colgan.
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That's not the point sir.

They're still paying someone $26/hour to be in command of a very sophisticated aircraft with lives in the cabin. The type of person who understands that responsibility deserves a hell of a lot more than $26/hour.

You know it's a sad day when Colgan outpays you by $10/hour for first year captain.
 
SmitteyB said:
That's not the point sir.

They're still paying someone $26/hour to be in command of a very sophisticated aircraft with lives in the cabin. The type of person who understands that responsibility deserves a hell of a lot more than $26/hour.

You know it's a sad day when Colgan outpays you by $10/hour for first year captain.
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I would not tell someone to work there. I would not work there. I am just looking at it from the other side of the fence. You guys would know better than me. No argument there. As far as deserving more money, Smittey, I could not agree more. You guys deserve better everything.
 
I threw bags for GLA while I was getting my CFI. Their money spends the same as everybody elses, there just isn't as much of it. Some markets out there don't really need anything more than a 19 pax eggbeater and that is where the EAS bid system comes from. Honestly, I couldn't do just because the paycheck is less than I made at my first CFI gig and I still wonder if I could have stuck it out to make the left seat in less than a year but in retrospect, I am so glad I didn't. If you really don't mind the schedule (expect the high-speeds for the first six months as an FO and then back again as soon as you get your fourth stripe,) I'd say go for it. Most of the folks I know that work there are standup guys that worked their @$$ off to get where they are. But I do agree that the "Happy to be here" days need to be long gone and we need some accountability for our profession. My question comes in the way of union influence. Shouldn't the union be raising hell with management regarding the fact that most of the crews are living from paycheck to paycheck? I guess it's my frustration with the SJS students that have come traipsing into my office lately...spouting "Blah-Blah Airline hires at 500 and 50." I don't like being the hard dose of reality and telling these folks that they might need to examine their options before they pack up for 50 day commercial pilot school but I also know that it has to happen. Right now, I would just like to hear one flight instructor who is happy with the fact that they get to fly an airplane everyday.
 
jml2992 said:
Shouldn't the union be raising hell with management regarding the fact that most of the crews are living from paycheck to paycheck?
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Another example of how the union is only as good as the membership. If everyone is just happy to be there, there's no great push to change anything. After all, they're just there to get their 1000 TPIC and go on to SWA, right?
 
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