Great Lakes Airlines pilots ask mediation release

Milesar

Milesar

Well-Known Member
Sounds like the pilot group is ready to step up to the plate, many have been working very hard over this contract for the last few years. If this plays out it will be a big step so I hope we can all help support these guys, I know they are not willing to accept anything less than standard.


Great Lakes Airlines pilots ask mediation release

United Transportation Union - http://utu.org​

After 53 fruitless mediated bargaining sessions stretching over almost three years between United Transportation Union-represented pilots and Great Lakes Airlines, the union has asked the National Mediation Board to declare an impasse in the talks, release the parties from mediation and make a proffer of binding arbitration.
...
In seeking the release from mediation and a proffer of binding arbitration, UTU International President Mike Futhey told the NMB that despite the 53 mediated bargaining sessions in which the UTU has sought to bargain in good faith, “the airline has refused even to discuss an acceptable offer, thus creating an impasse.”
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Great Lakes Airlines pilots ask mediation release

You know what the biggest disappointment in this business is?

I'm not just talking Great Lakes here. I'm talking most all airlines.

The fact that Airline Management 101 standard operating procedure is to push all labor groups to the wall and not even begin to get serious about a real and meaningful contract until the labor groups have to jump through all kinds of useless hoops, which go absolutely nowhere and then have to push the mediation release button and set up for a strike.

At some point this crap has to stop.

Union guys, if you want to get serious about this-- how about some financial DIS-INCENTIVES in the next contract that actually COSTS the company more to pull this crap that to actually get things worked out in a fair and equitable manner? This can be solved; you just need to get serious about solving it.

Joe
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
Great Lakes Airlines pilots ask mediation release

You know what the biggest disappointment in this business is?

I'm not just talking Great Lakes here. I'm talking most all airlines.

The fact that Airline Management 101 standard operating procedure is to push all labor groups to the wall and not even begin to get serious about a real and meaningful contract until the labor groups have to jump through all kinds of useless hoops, which go absolutely nowhere and then have to push the mediation release button and set up for a strike.

At some point this crap has to stop.

Union guys, if you want to get serious about this-- how about some financial DIS-INCENTIVES in the next contract that actually COSTS the company more to pull this crap that to actually get things worked out in a fair and equitable manner? This can be solved; you just need to get serious about solving it.

Joe
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I agree with this 100%! I'm starting to wonder whats wrong with pilots actually being united. Its simple, make reasonable demands followed by a reasonable time to respond. If the company wants to treat you like a POS everyone walks. There is no point in having labor unions if they serve no purpose. Of course I think everyone knows this but its near impossible to really make it work I guess.
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
Union guys, if you want to get serious about this-- how about some financial DIS-INCENTIVES in the next contract that actually COSTS the company more to pull this crap that to actually get things worked out in a fair and equitable manner? This can be solved; you just need to get serious about solving it.
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Sounds good. Now, explain to me how to get management to agree to something in bargaining that they know will screw themselves over down the road.
 
Rotor2Wing said:
I agree with this 100%! I'm starting to wonder whats wrong with pilots actually being united. Its simple, make reasonable demands followed by a reasonable time to respond. If the company wants to treat you like a POS everyone walks. There is no point in having labor unions if they serve no purpose. Of course I think everyone knows this but its near impossible to really make it work I guess.
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That would be great... but you have the RLA. I think we have a whole thread about that going right now. Called "Militant Labor".
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sounds good. Now, explain to me how to get management to agree to something in bargaining that they know will screw themselves over down the road.
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I learned a long time ago that it's much better to not tick the employees off. In our business, although I can't make everyone happy, I try to cut out the BS and treat the employees like they are on a team and are important. That way when we really do need some extra help because of business conditions or external issues, we are much more likely to get it without a whole lot of muss and fuss.

What most airlines have not figured out yet is that this does not have to be an us against them business model. We need each other. We can't have one without the other and it doesn't make sense to tick everyone off and then spend the time and money to sooth over those wounds which might last for decades. There are many airlines that did this and still do this.

A condition in the contract that puts an increase in place, if the contract does expire, is not unreasonable unless one of the parties intends to let the contract expire and drag things out. For someone to object to that condition would indicate that they intend to let the next contract expire. That is not a position that a company would want to admit or concede.

Good management realizes that happy and dedicated employees will be more productive and make more money for the company.

Disgruntled employees are not good for the company or the customers.

Joe
 
Well hopefully this is some sort of good news, I just accepted a job offer from them and starting in June...
 
mojo6911 said:
I thought GLA lost EAS and was on the way out?
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They are hiring like crazy and adding stops to their route, so I guess not... Personally the interview was great, and talking to some of their chief pilots was very informative...
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
A condition in the contract that puts an increase in place, if the contract does expire, is not unreasonable unless one of the parties intends to let the contract expire and drag things out. For someone to object to that condition would indicate that they intend to let the next contract expire. That is not a position that a company would want to admit or concede.
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I'm currently working on a new contract that became amendable over 3 years ago. We've made some progress moving forward but the fact of the matter is that this contract is 10 years old (and the padding with the LOAs of two Bankruptcies). That's way too long. The world has moved on and we haven't. I'm all for incentives that push the company to negotiate in good faith from the beginning but the problem with what you propose is (and any mediator will quickly point this out) then what is the incentive for the Union to come to the table, especially if conditions haven't improved and it will be difficult to make large advances with a new contract.
 
I just looked at the pay rates and im still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor. I know ive ranted against regional pay rates before, but this is a prime example of people still showing up for the job, even though they know the pay sucks.

Instead of taking a 14k/yr job, then striking to get the pay raised, why dont you just not take the job in the first place?
 
NickH said:
At 14K a year. Really? What was your thought process behind that?
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Not trying to sound like an ass, but I don't feel like I need to explain my decisions for my future to you nor anyone on this board. If you really want to know, PM me as I don't want to start any internet arguments.
 
JOEFRIDAY2 said:
A condition in the contract that puts an increase in place, if the contract does expire, is not unreasonable unless one of the parties intends to let the contract expire and drag things out. For someone to object to that condition would indicate that they intend to let the next contract expire. That is not a position that a company would want to admit or concede.
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First, contracts under the RLA don't expire. They just become amendable. The contract continues into perpetuity until an amendment is agreed upon.

But more to the point, BobDDuck is absolutely right about this. When unions propose the kinds of provisions that you're talking about, management always complains (and has some credibility in doing so) that with continual raises after the amendable date, unions lose their motivation to come to the table for a new deal. Contracts that have gone past their amendable dates are sometimes seen by management as a liability, because they worry shareholders and lending institutions. It is one more thing in the "risk" column. Therefore, companies want to know that if they're ready to get a new deal, that it isn't going to be a problem for them to get one. If you have automatic 3% raises built into your CBA past the amendable date, and other carriers have only been getting 2% raises (or even staying flat), then your motivation to come to the table is non-existent. The NMB understands this just like management does, so they don't have too much sympathy for a labor group trying to secure these kinds of provisions. And without the support of the NMB, you get nowhere.

Generally, the only time it is possible to obtain the kinds of provisions you're lucking for is during concessionary bargaining, where the company is looking for big cuts from you, and the way they get you to agree to them is by accepting this sort of provision that will start giving automatic raises at some point late in the deal. The Mesaba MEC was able to gain this provision in their bankruptcy CBA, for example.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'm currently working on a new contract that became amendable over 3 years ago. We've made some progress moving forward but the fact of the matter is that this contract is 10 years old (and the padding with the LOAs of two Bankruptcies). That's way too long. The world has moved on and we haven't. I'm all for incentives that push the company to negotiate in good faith from the beginning but the problem with what you propose is (and any mediator will quickly point this out) then what is the incentive for the Union to come to the table, especially if conditions haven't improved and it will be difficult to make large advances with a new contract.
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There is no question that there can be foot dragging on the Union side with such a provision just like there is foot dragging by the airline without such a provision.

That also can be solved. If there is truly an effort to delay a resolution then the increased monies can be put into an escrow account until a new contract is put in place.

That way both sides are on the hook for something and both sides have a reason to get the new contract in place.

Joe
 
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