Grant Aviation pilot killed in Southwest Alaska crash

Akbush said:
Oh boy.....see...it's this kind of crap that's not ok. Having flown with this guy at hageland....I'm well aware of his attitudes towards flying....like...regularly departing in dog crap...landing and saying "gee it's bad" and then flying in it again. Or getting stuck ontop in a 207 yelling for help on the radio....etc...so not shocked he drilled a hole with a plane.
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Sorry man, but that is pretty poor form.
 
Akbush said:
Oh boy.....see...it's this kind of crap that's not ok. Having flown with this guy at hageland....I'm well aware of his attitudes towards flying....like...regularly departing in dog crap...landing and saying "gee it's bad" and then flying in it again. Or getting stuck ontop in a 207 yelling for help on the radio....etc...so not shocked he drilled a hole with a plane.
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Did you talk to him about his "attitude" or his flying techniques? Did you try to discuss with him in a one-on-one setting and try to let him know your feelings/opinion/observations about his flying?

If so, I understand your post and feelings about him. If not, YOU'RE a big part of the problem that you've identified in your post!
 
How about a little empathy for the loved ones of this pilot who may out of curiosity find this post? Just not a great post about a professional pilot, and ONE PERSONS opinion of him.
 
For the guys who haven't had the privilege of seeing a familiar cockpit or the wreckage of a plane you have time
In suspended in trees in an NTSB docket, here's the kind of thing that makes you re-think the way you do things.
IMG_3459.JPG

I don't know about other sectors of the industry but I've seen in 135 it's easy to get lost in the day to day grind and forget that airplanes play for keeps. It's been 5 years now and I still remember the sinking feeling when I realized that our missing airplane wasn't going to show up.

I don't ever want my wife or 2 daughters to see a picture like that of my airplane in ADN.

WTF do I know tho, just been doing this for 7 years between mx and flying. Seen a lot of seasonal guys come and go, scared the spit out of myself a time or 5, and still here with an intact ATP and more importantly life to show for it.


And yes, I've had a few and I'm in contemplation mode.
 
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Roger Roger said:
For the guys who haven't had the privilege of seeing a familiar cockpit or the wreckage of a plane you have time
In suspended in trees in an NTSB docket, here's the kind of thing that makes you re-think the way you do things.
View attachment 38863
I don't know about other sectors of the industry but I've seen in 135 it's easy to get lost in the day to day grind and forget that airplanes play for keeps. It's been 5 years now and I still remember the sinking feeling when I realized that our missing airplane wasn't going to show up.

I don't ever want my wife or 2 daughters to see a picture like that of my airplane in ADN.

WTF do I know tho, just been doing this for 7 years between mx and flying. Seen a lot of seasonal guys come and go, scared the spit out of myself a time or 5, and still here with an intact ATP and more importantly life to show for it.


And yes, I've had a few and I'm in contemplation mode.
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I don't like turning it off - the first time I'd inhibited the TAWS on a regular basis in the last 5 years was in the Van last summer because it was annoying operationally and even that made me uncomfortable in a subtle way.

Makes you think though - that thing squawks for a reason - even if it's occasionally a nuisance, you should listen to it and do SOMETHING when it goes off - even if it's just to figure out "why" it's going off.

When I was flying out of MRI responses to terrain alerts were trained as an emergency procedure just like an engine failure or something. Not saying that's the right answer - but I think it's better than the casual "inhibit" that dominated my processes before.

If it's going off in cruise...fly higher...
 
Plata said:
Not saying it's right, but that's not uncommon. Some guys inhibit because they like to fly low in the terrain and they get tired of the frequent warnings. Some guys inhibit because erroneous warnings are not too uncommon. I've experienced warnings when I was nowhere near terrain, and I developed the opinion that the TAWS was not a reliable device. I've received clear messages from mechanics to not squawk the TAWS because they couldn't fix the problem. Again, not saying that's right.
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You have got to be kidding me.
 
av8tr1 said:
Holy cow. I knew the guy when I was there. We weren't close or anything but he was considered one of the better pilots.
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RIP.

The trouble with bush flying: as good as you may be, and as certain as you may be about your location... the mountains are are always better, and always know exactly where they are.
 
Roger Roger said:
"The aircraft was equipped with a (make/model) TAWS system. The system was installed in (year) and had accumulated (x) hours, of which it recorded (x-1) hours with the system in "INHIBIT" mode, which will not provide terrain warnings"
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Lol. TAWS in Alaska... in AK, everything is bigger. It's TTAWS: "Turn off That Awful Whining Squawkbox". At least that's the electronic version.

The most awesome bush pilots use the traditional, old-school, meat-based TAWS: Total Awareness With Surroundings.

The less awesome use: Too-low! AW! Shipoopy!
 
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Last time I flew the accident airplane, it had an awful Garmin 530/430 combo with no Alaska database. The terrain granularity was poor, and false alerts were constant. Worse, it was wired through the PA, so the passengers got to hear "CAUTION TERRAIN" "TERRAIN TERRAIN PULL UP PULL UP PULL UP" the whole freaking flight and during approach to every airport. It would go into complete freakout mode landing 20 in Skagway every single time, even with TAWS in "inhibit."

I did, however, -always- turn it on when things got hairy, or I had a reasonable idea that I might go IMC.

TAWS is not the answer for operations as they stand now. But then, when you have operators condoning bootleg IFR rather than cautious, reasoned decisionmaking that allows one to maintain VFR or cancel... the problem is that normalization of deviance is a thing. And people all say the right things, but in reality the pilot who "gets 'er done" gets treated better, gets "loved" by the company... because "Gotta make money."

It's really subtle, and it emanates from your peers as much—if not more than—management. The pressure to launch and check it out, the pireps of "X is good." or "X is wide open." when "X" is basically clouds to the water with a few gaps that can be squeezed through if the clouds happen to be in the right places at the time...

The dispatchers give "preference" to the pilots who will launch in anything and get through, even if they don't say it. The unwritten (but sometimes spoken) rule is "That's just how it is up here."

Once you've been there a while, you get institutionalized and stop recognizing risky behavior as risky behavior. You've done it literally thousands of times, so why would this time be any different?

But whatever, I was only there for two years and a thousand hours, so I have no "cred" against people who have been there for decades. I could see the problem with my operator, and see pilots from other carriers thrown out the door into weather they did NOT want to go out in, but I guess I lacked some sort of "perspective."

I had enough of that game, though. It is insanely predictable. I love Alaska dearly, but if I need to get to Haines, and I'm not flying myself, I'm taking the ferry.

-Fox
 
Roger Roger said:
-nuisance alerts in normal ops. Here's where I think the thinking needs to change. Yeah, there are a couple places we go that you have to have it inhibited no matter how carefully you fly. But outside of those spots, if the route/weather you're on/in is giving you "nuisance" alerts, maybe it's time re-evaluate what you're doing. If the weather is good, what are you doing so low, and if the weather is bad, well, the equipment is doing its damn job.
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This.
 
Acrofox said:
Last time I flew the accident airplane, it had an awful Garmin 530/430 combo with no Alaska database. The terrain granularity was poor, and false alerts were constant. Worse, it was wired through the PA, so the passengers got to hear "CAUTION TERRAIN" "TERRAIN TERRAIN PULL UP PULL UP PULL UP" the whole freaking flight and during approach to every airport. It would go into complete freakout mode landing 20 in Skagway every single time, even with TAWS in "inhibit."

I did, however, -always- turn it on when things got hairy, or I had a reasonable idea that I might go IMC.

TAWS is not the answer for operations as they stand now. But then, when you have operators condoning bootleg IFR rather than cautious, reasoned decisionmaking that allows one to maintain VFR or cancel... the problem is that normalization of deviance is a thing. And people all say the right things, but in reality the pilot who "gets 'er done" gets treated better, gets "loved" by the company... because "Gotta make money."

It's really subtle, and it emanates from your peers as much—if not more than—management. The pressure to launch and check it out, the pireps of "X is good." or "X is wide open." when "X" is basically clouds to the water with a few gaps that can be squeezed through if the clouds happen to be in the right places at the time...

The dispatchers give "preference" to the pilots who will launch in anything and get through, even if they don't say it. The unwritten (but sometimes spoken) rule is "That's just how it is up here."

Once you've been there a while, you get institutionalized and stop recognizing risky behavior as risky behavior. You've done it literally thousands of times, so why would this time be any different?

But whatever, I was only there for two years and a thousand hours, so I have no "cred" against people who have been there for decades. I could see the problem with my operator, and see pilots from other carriers thrown out the door into weather they did NOT want to go out in, but I guess I lacked some sort of "perspective."

I had enough of that game, though. It is insanely predictable. I love Alaska dearly, but if I need to get to Haines, and I'm not flying myself, I'm taking the ferry.

-Fox
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You flew for Grant? Or Dings leased that plane?
 
Acrofox said:
But whatever, I was only there for two years and a thousand hours, so I have no "cred" against people who have been there for decades. I could see the problem with my operator, and see pilots from other carriers thrown out the door into weather they did NOT want to go out in, but I guess I lacked some sort of "perspective."

I had enough of that game, though. It is insanely predictable. I love Alaska dearly, but if I need to get to Haines, and I'm not flying myself, I'm taking the ferry.

-Fox
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Dang, too prescient.
http://www.ktuu.com/content/news/NT...hes-Saturday-1-confirmed-fatal-424844314.html
 
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