Got someone up in the lav...

Kingairer said:
I knew someone would post that, and that's such a freak incident it's hardly something that can justify the existence of the rule. Amtrak derailed today killing 2.
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If it is a rule, then it exists in an airlines FOM. There is no rule/FAR that requires an aircraft to stop when a passenger stands up during taxi.
 
Actually, here's the one for 121.

121.311(b):

image.jpg
 
Well, it says that everyone needs to be down. If the PIC KNOWS that someone is up during movement, then the most efficient way to get back into compliance would be to stop the aircraft (the only variable that the PIC has direct control over)...

Side note, although there have been times I thought it might be satisfiying to "test the brakes" and teach someone a lesson, it has ended up being tempered with the knowledge that if you do something (intentional or not), that results in a serious injury to an occupant (always a possibility regardless of the severity of a fall), you just had an aircraft accident...
 
Toobdrvr said:
Well, it says that everyone needs to be down. If the PIC KNOWS that someone is up during movement, then the most efficient way to get back into compliance would be to stop the aircraft (the only variable that the PIC has direct control over)...
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But it is not always the safest. If someone stands up when you've been issued a "without delay, cross runway XX" are you going to stop in the middle of the runway because someone stood up?

It comes down to a judgement call by the Captain on whether or not stopping the aircraft is the appropriate and safest course of action.
 
It's not this hard. I personally will try to execute the safest course of action.

If I'm stopped, I will stay stopped until I know everyone's down.

If I'm moving, I will smoothly stop as soon as I can safely do so. In your runway scenario, I imagine I would continue across at what I consider a safe rate (considering the circumstances), find a safe place to stop, and stop smoothly.
 
One that got me thinking. You're in a long line for departure but it's possible tower will let you cut the line, but it's really 50/50 as to if you're going to be departing in the next 2 minutes or the next 30. FA calls and says someone wants to get up to use the lav. Make them wait and maybe piss themselves? Or let them get up knowing it'll likely cause a chain reaction of people getting up to use the lav, as it usually does.
 
JordanD said:
One that got me thinking. You're in a long line for departure but it's possible tower will let you cut the line, but it's really 50/50 as to if you're going to be departing in the next 2 minutes or the next 30. FA calls and says someone wants to get up to use the lav. Make them wait and maybe piss themselves? Or let them get up knowing it'll likely cause a chain reaction of people getting up to use the lav, as it usually does.
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Easy-peazy: If you're asking my permission to get up, the answer is no. If they get up anyway, lemme know and we'll go to plan B...
 
I'm not taxiing with passengers up for a couple reasons:

a. My company forbids it
b. Liability. The cabin crew is accustomed to moving around the cabin while taxiing. Joe Six Pack ain't and if he bangs his head on the bulkhead, I'm not going to have a leg to stand on in court.

Plus, when the flight attendant calls to say "someone is standing in the cabin", my next question is "did you tell them to sit?"
 
Derg said:
I'm not taxiing with passengers up for a couple reasons:

a. My company forbids it
b. Liability. The cabin crew is accustomed to moving around the cabin while taxiing. Joe Six Pack ain't and if he bangs his head on the bulkhead, I'm not going to have a leg to stand on in court.

Plus, when the flight attendant calls to say "someone is standing in the cabin", my next question is "did you tell them to sit?"
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Technically, from the time they close the cockpit door to 10,000 ft AGL, and from there to the gate, they should be following sterile cockpit rules and only calling you for an emergency. I don't see someone standing up an emergency. Let the cabin deal with the cabin.
 
Derg said:
I'm not taxiing with passengers up for a couple reasons:

a. My company forbids it
b. Liability. The cabin crew is accustomed to moving around the cabin while taxiing. Joe Six Pack ain't and if he bangs his head on the bulkhead, I'm not going to have a leg to stand on in court.

Plus, when the flight attendant calls to say "someone is standing in the cabin", my next question is "did you tell them to sit?"
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Like I said, if there is something in place requiring the stoppage of the aircraft with a passenger standing, it will be found within each individual company's regulations/policies, not the FARs.
 
Theres no far that dictates what you're supposed to do because you're not supposed to be in that situation in the first place. PER FAR.

There's also no far that says if you exceed 250 below 10, you have to pull the power back, but what are you going to do?
 
Kingairer said:
My guess is it's not left up to discretion. At my previous airline it was so ingrained in the FAs that it's their immediate reaction when it happens. Rather than handling anything themselves they put it in the laps of the captain.
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That and regional FAs are treated like absolute garbage by management. Lots of fear of "ghost riders" and the FAA to bust them on non compliance. My old company really had no respect for them so they weren't really given any avenues for problem solving.
 
ctab5060X said:
Like I said, if there is something in place requiring the stoppage of the aircraft with a passenger standing, it will be found within each individual company's regulations/policies, not the FARs.
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I'll take a peek if I can find my surface.

But if someone is up playing grab ass in the cabin, I'm going to stop and have the copilot do an announcement just for the sake of negative reinforcement.

The challenge I see when we're coming into the gate is abrupt stops. Someone is jockeying with the 40# carry on in the overhead and the marshaller gives me an immediate stop signal or one of those bagblasted LSG SkyChefs truck snakes around the road guard in front of the jet and that bag brains 23C… and I knew he was up… that's not something I want to go to the "Big Brown Desk" about.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
That and regional FAs are treated like absolute garbage by management. Lots of fear of "ghost riders" and the FAA to bust them on non compliance. My old company really had no respect for them so they weren't really given any avenues for problem solving.
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There are loads of ghost riders. Hell, half the time the CEO was on a SouthernJet, he'd blend into coach and you'd never know he was there.
 
ctab5060X said:
Like I said, if there is something in place requiring the stoppage of the aircraft with a passenger standing, it will be found within each individual company's regulations/policies, not the FARs.
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Yup.

SouthernJetters can check FOM Part 1, Page 7.1.6 as I can't cut-n-paste with assured impunity.

If we're told, we've got to stop when it's safe.

Not sure what the other side of the cockpit door has in their manual about notifying the captain if a passenger is out of their seat during taxi.

If I'm told, my hands are tied.

And if something happens and I said, "well that rule was idiotic so I didn't follow it" during a hearing, there's not much union representation can do for me.
 
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