Got myself in trouble and need advice

[Autothrust Blue]

I understand, English is my native tongue. If I left the Navy with my wings attached Delta would get a DD-214 and my logbooks and I wouldn't disclose anything else.

That's me, I don't think there is some sky god dispensing justice on this little insignificant planet.

If the FAA has a record of it, it's a bust; otherwise, if it doesn't say it on your DD214, it's none of their business.

Well, we’re obviously going to have to fix that when PRIA gets fixed too.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Well, we’re obviously going to have to fix that when PRIA gets fixed too.

I'm not opposed to a fix that recognizes the difference between military aviation and civil aviation.

I wouldn't mind if the branches reported negative FNAEB activity in support of PRIA.

IFS or UPT failures should be fully disclosed. However, once a military pilot gets wings I think there is so little commonality with the civil side that anything short of a negative FNAEB outcome is of marginal utility and an HR department may or may not know what they are looking at.

If I were in charge of a 121 HR department and looking at a Navy guy, I'd want to know just a few things. Did he make it through IFS (Initial Flight Screening), UPT (Undergraduate Pilot Training), FRS (Fleet Replacement Squadron), and successfully complete his first tour? Did he promote to O3, was there any negative FNAEB outcomes, and did he keep his wings.

Beyond that, I'd want to see his FAA certs, ratings, and military and civilian logbooks.

I don't think that training that is evaluating skills unique to military aviation should be placed in front of airline HR folks.

This is not new territory. The FAA respects the rigor of military pilot training and asks for few details when issuing certs and ratings based on military experience.

 

[Flyinthrew]

"What is this 13 hours of dual received in the T-45?"

"Oh, that? It's nothing."

Disclose it. Period. This isn't even a question.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

"What is this 13 hours of dual received in the T-45?"

"Oh, that? It's nothing."

Disclose it. Period. This isn't even a question.

Obviously, you should be able to describe the contents of your logbook. My issue is the fairness associated with attempting to apply civilian standards to military training and operations.

If I apply to TPS and I'm not accepted after a check ride, is that a failure? Obviously, that's different than failing to complete training. That said, in military aviation everything is training until you are in combat.

"After x hours of transition training it was determined that my previous experience in patrol aircraft didn't adequately prepare me to be an IP in a training program with a focus on carrier operations". That's full disclosure.

I think I've made it clear what my objections are. What you fail to disclose may have consequences, I didn't think I had to say that.

 

[Dexter]

The larger point being you aren’t gonna not get the job based on a single training failure or incomplete or whatever gymnastics you wanna do to classify it differently. But you could very possibly not get the job based on it coming up in the interview that it seems you’re being untruthful.

So any non super badass fighter jockey reading this, please don’t listen to pilotfighter’s advice.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

The larger point being you aren’t gonna not get the job based on a single training failure or incomplete or whatever gymnastics you wanna do to classify it differently. But you could very possibly not get the job based on it coming up in the interview that it seems you’re being untruthful.

So any non super badass fighter jockey reading this, please don’t listen to pilotfighter’s advice.

Full disclosure, I'm not a 121 guy and not a Navy pilot. Likewise, I don't know what Delta expects and what they consider "flight training".

The problem is that until you are in combat, everything is training. When most military guys think about "flight training" they think of UPT, the stuff you do to earn your wings .

On reflection, this guy should probably disclose this failure to complete transition or IP training. I think he was thrown to the wolves and I hope that any HR department would see that.

That said, where do you draw the line? I think that after you earn your wings and complete your first tour, the standard should be a negative FNAEB outcome.

Normally, disclosure is the best path as an accusation of non-disclosure can be damaging. That said, how to translate a military record to the civilian world is a challenge.

 

[thevideographer]

The airline hiring process is so unfair to former military

 

[Flyinthrew]

The airline hiring process is so unfair to former military

Did you forget the sarcasm button?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[thevideographer]

Did you forget the sarcasm button?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought the sarcasm should be obvious enough without the button this time.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

"What is this 13 hours of dual received in the T-45?"

"Oh, that? It's nothing."

Disclose it. Period. This isn't even a question.

Putting it in roughly equivalent civilian terms, it would appear that anyone who reviews the record and is reasonably conversant would be able to understand the facts at hand and reach a decision not as to whether or not the pilot was disqualified, but to whether or not the pilot was telling the truth.

 

[Low_Level_Hell]

Your integrity has faltered once. If you come clean on that, it can probably be understood and forgiven. But if you try


Can't speak definitively to the impact on your career, but you should tell the truth, if for no other reason, it's the easiest thing to remember. Besides, you never know who or what the interviewer on the other side of the table already knows. The last thing you want is to not tell them and they find out. You''re integrity has already faltered once. If it's perceived as faltering again, I'd imagine your chances of anything other than a regional would be nil, and that's only in the current hiring environment.

The thing I'm curious about is the impact it has had on your military flying career. Does the military vet their instructor candidates before assigning them? I think it's fair to say that it takes a special kind of person to be an effective instructor, and you wouldn't want just anyone doing that. To me it seems you were set up to fail because you were assigned duty you didn't want and may not have been suited for.

Geesh.... give the guy a break. He’s just trying to figure out what the accepted norms are for reporting such mil flight exam failures to an airline interview. Military and civilian flight regs have never been perfectly aligned and he’s asking a legitimate question.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

If I came off as critical, that was not my intention. Seems to me the real issue here is not the failure. It's the perception that he was cheating.

I don't think it's the "cheating" as much as the sudden realization that as a result of his inability to finish his assigned tour, he's no longer going to promote to O-4 and stay in the game until retirement, let alone be considered for command.

As an O-3 and probably behind the curve for promotion, the odd assignment as an IP probably represented a "dare to be great" opportunity that might have made O-4 and eventual retirement possible.

I can't imagine a hot-shot P-3 O-3 that's attracted attention and FitReps that make him look like a future squadron commander or rock solid department head is going to end up as an IP unless he's an amazing stick and wants to show folks that a patrol guy can earn his keep around the boat.

Our Lieutenant friend can speak for himself but I doubt things were going great before his blunder.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Our Lieutenant friend can speak for himself but I doubt things were going great before his blunder.

Said the training records of just about everyone who's ever bent an airplane, tbqhwy.